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Twitter or Bitter?

How is everyone getting on with Twitter- worth the time or a lot of effort for the return?

We (www.amazingdays-scotland.com) set up our account last week and have been tweeting away, quite sucessfully (i think) and now have 79 followers. Looking at Google Analytics though we have only had 7 referrals in 9 days and no goal conversion yet......

If you use Twitter come follow our ever move:thumbup1: and make my efforts worthwhile...http://twitter.com/AmazingDaysScot

Do you use it? Would you use it? Any success stories to motivate me :bored:
 
For me, my brief 'foray' into Twitter has been nothing more than a random Spam generator... I've now blocked any email that even mentions 'twitter' from my system...

On a professional level there's nothing practical (or at least nothing worthwhile) I can achieve with twitter that I can't do with a mobile phone book and SMS. Or cheaper still an emailing list! I can see why it appeals to my pre-teen daughter. I can even see why it appeals to my students.

But I'll tell you this much....

I often hear from or run into former students and colleagues, and the ones that are busy and working on real paying jobs are the ones who are knocking on doors and pasting up flyers and handing out leaflets and demo discs and basically just getting out there using old fashioned techniques....

While the ones that are hunting for work (and failing) are twittering, blogging, Bebo'd up to the hilt and fanatical about facebook.. Maybe they should just knock some doors???

There are a lot of people making good money from social networking sites. And in saying that I don't necessarily mean that they're good places to find potential customers...

With all that said; you've been using it what? A week? Uber-cynical as I am even I would give it quite a bit longer!
 
Scottish Business Owner

Scottish Business Owner

New Member
Well i've been on several months now and i'm approaching three hundred followers. I wont put everything in this post as I'm about to release something on the blog along the same lines :p

Twitter does bring traffic to this site and it has got us a few members as well so I guess from that point it has worked to a degree. My main issue is the longevity of the thing or whether it's just a fad that wont be here in twelve months. It always amazes me how these sites get their valuations without having and great means of monetisation.

I would agree with Matt you need to give it a few months. One thing that has helped me has been Tweetmentor from Nikki Pilkington. She helped me see that it's not just all about the numbers as you can actually buy followers quite cheaply. It's about listening as well as tweeting and trying to answer people's questions now and again to try and build a bit of rapport.

Tweetmentor - a business on Twitter aid and help - Twitter for business help

Anyway that enough for now. I'll be making a blog post on it very soon :)
 
NorthSouthMedia

NorthSouthMedia

New Member
I have used Twitter since summer of 2007 and now love it to bits (although I did hate it for awhile and moved onto Plurk before the flame was rekindled) I have just over 800 followers.

You'd reckon by the time I have been Twittering I'd have a lot more, right?

Wrong, I don't use any automated follow process and the followers I have are worth their weight in gold.

I can send my site into a dizzy height after I have twittered a blog post, although nowhere near the heights of Digg and StumbleUpon or even Reddit for traffic numbers ( I once sent a blog post over 100,000 visitors in just 2 days, thanks not to me, but social media in general) but its the knock-on effect that I love.

I don't Twitter for traffic, I don't Twitter for links, I Twitter because it brings me into the spotlight of many people who will offer advice and tap me on the shoulder to a perhaps missed opportunity.

This is just my opinion, not overall view of how Twitter works, just how it works for me, that's all.
 
Gordon N

Gordon N

New Member
I think too many businesses start to use twitter as a sales tool - it's not!

It's a social media platform meaning you need to get involved and interact with people in order to get anything out of it, not just post a continuous rant of spammy link filled posts to anybody following (as all too many do unfortunately).

For me personally I have found only a couple of potential businesses enquiries through twitter, but more importantly it has put my name in front of some of the best known names in my industry, who will happily reply to, or retweet my tweets and who I have conversed with in direct messaging. In a round about way this has lead to me writing a couple of soon to be published tutorials for a globally recognised web design/development blog! Not only do they pay good money for tutorials, but again it gains me visibility to a huge number of fellow developers, hobbyists and enthusiasts who can in turn become potential clients or collaborators. :)

In summary, in industries like mine where it is hard (if not impossible) to pull an instant online sale Twitter can be better used to network amongst your industry peers and potential gain reputation and authority. That in itself cannot be bought and is in everyway as valuable as a sale (in my opinion).
 
I think too many businesses start to use twitter as a sales tool - it's not!

It's a social media platform meaning you need to get involved and interact with people in order to get anything out of it, not just post a continuous rant of spammy link filled posts to anybody following (as all too many do unfortunately).

Quite so; and this is surely true of any kind of social media platform... One of the things that drags forums down (for instance) is any degree of 'tolerance' given to spammers or the disreputable.... That's difficult enough to police on a forum like this where we not only have time on our hands, but a moderation system....

The difficulty I have with platforms like Twitter, Facebook etc is that they almost seem designed to encourage (in terms of self-promotion) the banal, the trivial and the manipulative... And to quote a (rather obscure) old song "everyone's got something to sell" ......"If you're bad you're good; If you're good you're better with the Hype"....

And it Is just hype.... IMHO that is.....

The essence of the problem is that it's being SOLD to people as a means of self-promotion; not a means of interaction. (Although I'd readily acknowledge that's what it should be!) From a business perspective I think these platforms lack weight and credibility; and this is at the same time the primary strength and the main weakness of these platforms..... That may be appropriate to the selling of certain products but not others!

Ask yourself if you'd advertise your particular business in "Viz" ..."The Chap" or perhaps "Gay Times"..... I could make the case that all are quite well established publications which have quite a following from AB1 men aged 35 to 45 with high disposable incomes.... A high proportion of whom are business owners...

Not many takers huh?

Then why obsess over something that was designed for and by some ab-fab-esque over-privileged, over grown overpaid techno-twits??? Why unless that's actually your target market? (which, to be fair it might be).... That or secondary school/college kids....

'Fraid the only thing I got out of Twitter (and Facebook) were a lot of 'special offers' on Viagra and mail order brides... (do they deflate them for posting I wonder or just crate 'em up?).....

00:28...Wednesday... Searching for bicycle pump and claw-hammer.... :001_tongue:
 
NorthSouthMedia

NorthSouthMedia

New Member
Matt, I really don't know who you are having a go at ... the social media sites or your obvious failing with them.

No-one, I repeat, no-one, said that social media was an open door for businesses, you get what you put in, and if you put in nought then honsetly what do expect in return.

Social media takes time, takes creativity and takes some thought. i mean who had heard of MoonFruit about 8 days ago, now their plastered over (or were) all over Twitter as a more popular trend than MJ's death or Iran conflict, they get featured on the BBC's website + a multitude of others ... all because they get Twitter.

Those that do 'get it' will prosper while those that 'don't get it' will, well, don't get it!
 
Gordon N

Gordon N

New Member
why obsess over something that was designed for and by some ab-fab-esque over-privileged, over grown overpaid techno-twits???

:lol: What a description!!

As a bit of follow up, last night I read an interesting article in a web industry magazine discussing whether Twitter was in fact a fad. The stats produced reveal that Twitter is not actually as big or popular as many may believe. The article details that 90% of all tweets can be attributed to the top 10% of users! Other social networks average 90% by the top 30% of active users.

I would like to find out how many of the top 10% of users are self proclaimed social media consultants! (There are too many of these guys on Twitter, and ironically they actually spam it in my opinion!) :001_rolleyes:

I will continue to use Twitter applying the same rule to it as I do any other business tool - if it's benefiting the business in someway at an affordable rate, use it - if not, shelf it for now and look again later.
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
I treat all these things in the same way.

I always ask will they enhance my businesses by helping me find new clients. If the answer is yes I will engage that route and if the answer is no I will not.

If testing and trials show a ROI we continue if not we disengage.

You have to get to a point in life where you honestly have to be able to stand up and say what you think does not really matter , what you know does not matter that much as well.

What does matter is what your clients and potential clients think and do. when you understand that, you are then presented with an opportunity. What you do with it comes back to what you think, what you know and your ability to execute.

To much time getting the above the wrong way round.
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
Going on from above I really do not know how to use twitter but I know it is powerful because my clients and more importantly my potential clients are using it.

So far I have made some money from it but what it really provides for me is market intelligence.

My core product is rafting. I want to enter a new market for me but the most established market in the world for rafting with 4 million people going rafting each year. I will have to invest and work, smart, hard and fast to get my money back and get a decent return.

If you were in the position above and were putting you balls on the line. What would you give for growing database of around 300 to 1000 plus people per day who have purchased your product in the past or are thinking about purchasing going forward before you spend serious money?

So just to make that clear, before you spend any serious money you have a database of several hundred thousand clients who use or are interested in using the services you provide:w00t:

If I had, had that resource when I bought my first rafting business life would have been oh so much easier.
 
M

Marty

New Member
I've never really given much thought to twitter before. But like Gordon has said, I've been looking at it as a sales tool for which it's not.

I'm a little to busy getting things done that need to be done at the moment to be able to 'tweet' and properly interact with followers, but it does seem like a good way to get involved and interact with people.
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
I've never really given much thought to twitter before. But like Gordon has said, I've been looking at it as a sales tool for which it's not.

I'm a little to busy getting things done that need to be done at the moment to be able to 'tweet' and properly interact with followers, but it does seem like a good way to get involved and interact with people.

Hi Marty

Welcome to the forums.

All business people are busy. Also at the end of the day time is the only thing that has any value. How you spend that time is what is important.

I know a lot of very busy people who do not make much money or have many clients!

Things like twitter are powerful. Everyone just needs to figure out how they work for them.

I am no guru but I do know opportunity when I see it and at the moment I am in the gathering of information stage with twitter although it has made me money. Soon I will action on the information I have gathered and I will report back on results.
 
Matt, I really don't know who you are having a go at ... the social media sites or your obvious failing with them.

Why do you assume I'm "having a go" at anyone? All I'm doing is adding a little fill and backlight to something that's currently illuminated by a single glaring spot! :eek:

No-one, I repeat, no-one, said that social media was an open door for businesses

I'd venture to disagree with that... The hundreds of spam emails I receive every week promoting 'social media' as a business platform. The articles I've read in business publications; even the fact that my neighbourhood LEC has engaged the services of a male "Marjorie Dawes" to try to persuade us all to start Twittering away like budgies.....

All these things tend to suggest otherwise....

you get what you put in, and if you put in nought then honsetly what do expect in return.

Social media takes time, takes creativity and takes some thought. i mean who had heard of MoonFruit about 8 days ago, now their plastered over (or were) all over Twitter as a more popular trend than MJ's death or Iran conflict, they get featured on the BBC's website + a multitude of others ... all because they get Twitter.

Which says more about the demographics of Twitter than it does about it's general effectiveness. A more pertinent question would be who still hasn't heard of Moonfruit? Followed closely by who doesn't give a stuff about Moonfruit?

Those that do 'get it' will prosper while those that 'don't get it' will, well, don't get it!

Actually; those that 'get it' will just 'get it'.

At the age of about 14 I 'discovered' that replacing the standard bearings in my skateboard with those meant for a vacuum cleaner motor made it run much faster.... Made myself a small fortune (relatively speaking) that summer tuning up skateboards. And at that point in time Skateboarding was big money with magazines and specialist shops popping up all over the place....

Guess how much any of that matters now? At the time it was cooler than a chilled thing on a snowy day. But once the fuss had died down and the novelty had worn off....

Like Skateboards, Filofaxes, Dot-Coms and Business-Card shaped CDs these things will all find their level. The only for-sure thing being that they're no one-size-fits-all answer to marketing your business. Which brings me back to the original question....

How is everyone getting on with Twitter- worth the time or a lot of effort for the return?

And my point is basically that for some, Twitter (et al) is bound to be a great resource. I can see exactly why those offering leisure products and services would benefit from it. Likewise I can see why my music management and theatrical colleagues benefit from it.

But for others; well, the thing is not everyone's going to get on with Twitter... and indeed many other social networks. For many businesses it's not only likely to be ineffective but inappropriate...

And this was a point missed by the twenty-something in a cheap suit, wearing a tie that his mammy hudnae taught him to tie properly whom I recently encountered. (The male Marjory Dawes I spoke of) His evangelism was clearly lost on many among the audience of moderately-successful business people he was addressing... Many a Mont Blanc being returned to Prada briefcase before Porsche keys were pressed into service as more than one facebook failure decided that they'd heard enough and returned to their (obviously struggling) businesses....

I would like to find out how many of the top 10% of users are self proclaimed social media consultants! (There are too many of these guys on Twitter, and ironically they actually spam it in my opinion!)

Quite so... :001_rolleyes:

But I would agree with what's been posted before that it WILL take a lot of effort if it's to work for any given individual. Whether that's worthwhile depends of many many different variables....
 
Eagle

Eagle

New Member
I find the biggest problem with twitter is that people don't read people's profiles.
 

stuarty

Banned
Bitter? No just precise.

From the trials we did twitter had extremely limited results.

We know this because it was all down to careful measurement and controlled methods. You can't simply go on, gather x amount of followers and start singing from the rooftops about how great it is because someone makes an enquiry. You have to measure everything then compare this to other methods.

In the tests we did we compared the same amount of time invested in twitter/facebook etc to tha same time invested in an article on digg. The results were on an astronomical scale.

One of our best results - one article on Digg generated immense traffic, leads, enquiries, inbound links etc. The cost of the article - £40. Time involved in setup, dissemintation - 20 mins. 3 sales, 43 inbound links, 3167% increase in traffic.

The same thing on twitter and facebook combined, 0 sales, 3 links, less than1% increase in traffic, 4.5 hours twittering, tweeting, posting generating conversation. Half a days wages, time lost.

We repeated this test time and again. Each time twitter generated virtually nothing.

Some may say they get business, traffic, exposure from twitter but in every single test we did we found exactly the same stuff being repeated, regurgitated, permutated and so on.

We did one experiment however to create buzz around a certain item. This did create traffic and increase links BUT it died down very quickly. Again there were absolutely no orders or enquiries. It followed exactly the same pattern and went off topic.

The main problem with twitter is that it is a realtime experience. It's the same as an arrivals/departures board, once the vehicle has arrived it moves down the board. Tweets provide little value for archiving.

If you were to go onlin to buy a PC for example would you search twitter?

Twitter will produce something eventually but you have to seriously ask yourself if the time you invest is worth it.

As I said before - with twitter you can only compare to other methods if you measure carefully. You have to time yourself, collate your data and analyse this in your analytics programs.
 
h2odesigns

h2odesigns

New Member
I'm a bit sceptical about all of this but does the effectiveness of your Twitter or social media experience have anything to do with the type of industry you are in?
 
I'm a bit sceptical about all of this but does the effectiveness of your Twitter or social media experience have anything to do with the type of industry you are in?

I'd imagine very much so....

I know that music promoters use many social media platforms quite effectively. And you can see why. It's said that (among other techniques) Epstein 'seeded' the playgrounds with free tickets to the Cavern Club in order to create the 'buzz' around the Beatles that drove them forward... That technique was CERTAINLY going on in the late 70's. And I remember well that there were several 4th, 5th and 6th year kids who effectively 'worked for' the City Centre venues and promoters as 'pluggers'.... Something that went on well into the 90's (still does to an extent).

Today that 'seeding' is an online process with the 'playground' having taken on a global scale. The difficulty is that at some point we grow away from the playground... We don't have time for it. Stuarty wrote....

The main problem with twitter is that it is a realtime experience. It's the same as an arrivals/departures board, once the vehicle has arrived it moves down the board. Tweets provide little value for archiving.

This is both the format's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness. It's like hanging 'round the school gates at lunch time. Some people have every right to be there.... Some probably shouldn't be there and the presence of others is actually just a bit creepy.... (i.e doing their reputation no good at all).

Strikes me that the main commodity on Twitter is time. It's about wasting it; which, don't get me wrong, is something we all have the right to do at our leisure. Now if you're in the business of helping others 'utilise' their leisure time then Twitter may well be something you have to engage in...

For example, much as it was, in the past, worthwhile a promoter enlisting a teenager to actually get in among the target audience and push their wares so it's probably worth their while paying some kid buttons to 'Twitter' away all day... And on a 'heavier' level it's known that many of the big promoters put serious effort into this sort of thing....

BUT for the rest of us????

As Stuarty's post suggests; these things are 'time sponges'.Somehow I'm reminded of the early days of CB radio... Fun at the time; and still useful if you have a 4X4 or drive a truck or live out in the sticks, but ultimately???

At least with a forum post or a blog there's some artefact which might be a future value...
 
Gordon N

Gordon N

New Member
Some very good points, although the time waste element can be reduced by using a good Twitter client application - to be honest if your using the web interface to use Twitter, you haven't quite grasped the full benefits.

I use an application called TweetDeck which allows me to administer multiple Twitter accounts (and facebook) from one interface. It runs as an Adobe AIR application meaning it sits on my desktop, and it provides on screen notifications when someone your following tweets something. This means I can ignore it if I'm busy, or click the notification to pop open the windows and have a scan down the list of tweets. At this point I can 'mark them all read' and favourite any tweets that I might want to look at later (links etc).

Using Twitter this way removes the need to sit and watch a webpage waiting for something of some use to appear, and allows you to fit Twitter around your time rather than the other way around.

I agree that Twitter works better in some industries than others, being in a creative industry (and effectively a freelancer) I find it a great resource of contacts and articles that help me expand my skills and keep up to date with the latest trends etc. I couldn't care if it doesn't find me customers, it provides me the opportunity to become more sellable - worth the 20-30 minutes a day that I actively use it, which is usually whilst I am eating my lunch anyway :tongue_smilie:
 
Gutsy

Gutsy

New Member
I'm not on Twitter yet - well, I'm a Facebook addict as some of you know - but one of the things I like about Facebook is that it seems to be very search engine friendly. I get a lot of business through my Facebook business page. Can the same be said for Twitter
 

dotsno

New Member
The problem with Twitter, Facebook et al is not the tools themselves, but rather the fact a million and one self-professed "social media experts" have sprung up and do their best to sell services explaining how great these websites are and how everyone should get on them, devising workshops, seminars, tutorials and all sorts.

Fact is they're social networking tools. Networking online, like networking offline, is not a basic sales tool - it's about developing relationships, long-term genuine relationships, and that takes time, commitment and devotion. It's not an easy sell and they're not direct sales tools.

They're also not good for every business - and we've got to remember that multi-million pound businesses grew and existed long before Twitter and online social networking. The web can fundamentally change the way companies do business, it can create new markets, save immense amounts of time and money in terms of processes within business, it can create fantastic life-changing relationships both personally and in business.

But Twitter isn't right for every business and in this day and age where a lot of businesses are about services and about selling 'time', time is a very valuable commodity. For many businesses, if the people involved in tweeting or updating blogs or Facebook pages spent as long doing certain other tasks, the business may be far more profitable. It depends entirely on the business.

Before tweeting, setting up a Facebook page, adding forums to your company website, you ought to think about the strategy behind it all and why you're doing it and who you're targeting and how much time it's going to take. Just like offline networking, online networking - or even blended networking strategies where you successfully combine online/offline networking with the same people - really isn't a "must have" for every business at this stage.

I'm a huge advocate of the web (I've been in the industry since 1994 and run a number of niche social networking websites as well as advise on online commerce platforms for some of the UK's largest retailers) and a proponent for the fundamental change of business processes around internet technology - BUT, and I've been saying this since 1994, don't just go online because you think you have to, don't just get a website, think first about your strategy, who you're targeting, why, and where they go... the web may not be right for you and these days social media may not be right for you... yet.
 
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