Small business server, do you use it?

[IT Training UK]

Hi all, the orginisation I am working for are running a series of SBS 2008 training courses in the next few months. I am trying to find out from the users here at sbf, do you use small business server for your business? What are the advantages/disadvantages of this Microsoft software? What would you like to see in SBS 2008?

Many thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[pdu]

Personally, I don't use MS software at all. I also realise i'm a geek however, but even for a normal business, I think the fact the linux is free, skills are getting more common and its performance make it a much better server option for small businesses. I mean linux can even act as an NT4 PDC and BDC without paying for windows server and CALs, and a small business doesn't really need AD. Granted they'd probably need to pay a linux consultant to configure samba to do this job, but they'd probably be paying an MCSE to configure AD too. Just my 2 cents on the matter

Phill

 

[computer storm]

Hello,

So after doing this course does it give you a Qualification that will help you get another job or is it just for people that want to find out more about SBS2008.

 

[Brian McIntosh]

Does the fact that I don't understand a word of what you've just explained mean that I don't need it or that maybe a better explanation is needed before making a decision?

 

[Former Member 1]

Does the fact that I don't understand a word of what you've just explained mean that I don't need it or that maybe a better explanation is needed before making a decision?

Kermit and Co say.....

Windows Small Business Server 2008 is an all-in-one server solution designed to help you keep your data more secure and your company more productive. It provides many of the features used by larger companies, such as e-mail, Internet connectivity, internal Web sites, remote access, support for mobile devices, file and printer sharing, backup, and restore—all at one affordable price.

Me? I have a computer built from junk parts in the meter cupboard. It has some big hard drives and runs constantly. We run the CCTV system on it and use it for backups.... I can do everything stated above. It runs XP pro, Pico 2000 and now't else..... Can't see how much more complex a system you'd need for five or six machines....

I suspect you might not need it Brian. Strikes me it's something relevant more to slightly 'less small' small businesses... That and IT specialists who want to service that market.

 

[stugster]

The price of CALs really does it for me. No matter how fantastic the software actually is, I think it really makes small business owners stop and think "Do I really need this software/server?"

Microsoft could have easily sold twice as many if they had thought a bit more about their target market, rather than their own cash flow. Yes, SBS is set up perfectly for a small business in terms of the restrictions the software imposes on you, but no, its not set up price-wise for a small business. The price you pay is extortionate.

I have had many customers simply say no to the SBS benefits on the basis of price alone, and those that have SBS haven't been that much impressed with the functionality either.

Even as an "IT Specialist" I wouldn't recommend SBS to any small business. The price-get ratio (what you pay for what you get) is just rubbish.


I'll see if I can get a case-study to sign up and give us their opinion of SBS

 

[computer storm]

Yes but if you look at the new way that Microsoft is doing it CALS you will see that they are now selling them one at a time instead of a batch of 5 or even 10, this will then cut the price for the small business, as most small businesses grow the server OS is a good starting platform. As you know it has everything comes with it including exchange sharepoint and ISA server. These alone you would have to pay an arm and a leg for.

 

[stugster]

Yes, but why? That's the bit that does it for me. From a small business point of view, the outlay of £200 for the Operating System, then £X for Microsoft Exchange, then £X for someone to set it up, and don't forget the £X for the hardware itself, surely is enough money to be spending.

The idea of CALs is just Microsoft's way of generating more money. That's all.

I don't like the idea of paying for software, and then having to pay for additional licences to give people the ability to use it. Especially when there are so many competitors out there offering services and software that is almost just as good (linux).

 

[Brian McIntosh]

I wasn't suggesting for one minute that I would actually buy this. I was just commenting on the fact that, when most, and I stress the MOST bit, this doesn't apply to ALL IT people, talk about these things, acronyms are the name of the game. I've had other IT people speak to me and I just glaze over. How do I know if these things are any good or, will help to make my business more efficient if I'm not told how it will do it. Now, to an educated person, having my linux act as an NT4 PDC and BDC without paying for CAL's and using Samba because I don't need AD and maybe having to get an MCSE to configure the AD if I choose to use it, is maybe plain English but, to me it's just utter bollocks. If you speak in a language I understand then maybe I'll be able to make a more informed decision as to what's best for me and I may just be inclined to fork out and use your services. Just my 2p worth.

 

[pdu]

Fair point, my reply was one IT person to another really and I wouldn't approach a customer in that fashion. The main point I was making is, skills are needed to set up either a Linux server or a Windows server, you can't get around that fact, but the issue with windows is, you need the hardware, the windows software licences, the client licences (for each device to connect to the server) and the specialist to set it up, whereas a Linux server can do the same job, without requiring the software or client licences.

That's why I wouldn't personally use Windows for my servers, and in the majority of cases (pretty much anywhere there are less than 20,000 users) I'd advise going down the Linux route for customers too. As to why I say 20,000 users, the ability to allow users to logon from anywhere in a company is provided by a Domain Controller, the old NT4 style really starts to choke at around 30,000ish accounts, Active Directory on Windows 2000 and onwards (but not available on linux, yet) does scale well to at least 60,000 accounts, but at this point, Small Business Server isn't the option you need, so ultimately, I just don't think SBS has a valid place in the market.

As for my source for the number of users figures, they are personal experience having worked on large networks for banks and Government, and I'd like to point out that AD may scale very well beyond the point I mentioned, but I've never verified it myself.

 

[Former Member 1]

but, to me it's just utter bollocks.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You, me, and 90% of the business community...

 

[stugster]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You, me, and 90% of the business community...

Ill-educated monkeys!

 

[Former Member 1]

Ill-educated monkeys!

Or is it just that we've spotted the king is indeed in the altogether???:001_tt2:

 

[Brian McIntosh]

Phill, I realise you were answering IT with IT. I'm in the market for having a network built in my new office but without understanding all the IT speak, I don't know if it's something I could do myself or if it would be better getting someone in to do it for me. I'll have a word with my IT specialist and see if he'll talk english to me.:thumbup:

 

[pdu]

ask stug, he knows his stuff I'm assuming you're in scotland anyway.

 

[stugster]

Brian,

I'm 99.9% confident that with the support you'll receive through these forums, you'll be able to set up the hardware sides of the network yourself. Depending on your requirements, the software side might be a bit more tricky - if you want to throw in a Server for all your file-sharing or backups, etc.

This IT specialist sounds like a good guy, ask him and I'm sure he'll be able to point you in the right direction once he knows what you're after

 

[Brian McIntosh]

I'll catch you on Messenger sometime, IT specialist.:001_tt2:

 

[computer storm]

Hello Brian,

The benefits of having a SBS 2003 or SBS2008 are the fact that everything with in your office can be centralized, and data can be secured to only the users you want access to certain information. It also allows you to have central backups of your data and allows you to have remote access to your company, so if you are on the road you can still have access to your data. SBS comes with 5 CAL as standard so if you do not have more than 5 employess then you will not have to spend out on any CALS at the time of install.

The other benefit is that if you have a good knowledge of IT and I dont mean you have to be a specialist just someone that knows a little then you can actually install the server yourself as most of the install uses Wizards to set the server up, and also the remote accesss and mail system up.

The SBS also support mobile devices so you can have your e-mail pushed to your mobile device so that you can reply to important mails directly from your device.

But as I say to most of the company's if you do not need it dont buy it all depends on what you are looking for and how big your company will grow in the next couple of years.

Hope this helps if not by all means contact me and i can explain it better for you.

 

[computer storm]

Hello Brian,

The benefits of having a SBS 2003 or SBS2008 are the fact that everything with in your office can be centralized, and data can be secured to only the users you want access to certain information. It also allows you to have central backups of your data and allows you to have remote access to your company, so if you are on the road you can still have access to your data. SBS comes with 5 CAL as standard so if you do not have more than 5 employess then you will not have to spend out on any CALS at the time of install.

The other benefit is that if you have a good knowledge of IT and I dont mean you have to be a specialist just someone that knows a little then you can actually install the server yourself as most of the install uses Wizards to set the server up, and also the remote accesss and mail system up.

The SBS also support mobile devices so you can have your e-mail pushed to your mobile device so that you can reply to important mails directly from your device.

But as I say to most of the company's if you do not need it dont buy it all depends on what you are looking for and how big your company will grow in the next couple of years.

Hope this helps if not by all means contact me and i can explain it better for you.

If you need more info on SBS2008 check out Microsofts site at Windows Small Business Server: Home Page

 

[stugster]

The benefits of having a SBS 2003 or SBS2008 are the fact that everything with in your office can be centralized, and data can be secured to only the users you want access to certain information.

That's not a benefit of SBS, that comes as standard with most server suites.

It also allows you to have central backups of your data and allows you to have remote access to your company, so if you are on the road you can still have access to your data.

Again, linux does this too, it's not just SBS that does this.

SBS comes with 5 CAL as standard so if you do not have more than 5 employess then you will not have to spend out on any CALS at the time of install.

Linux comes with no need for CALs at all. The amount of users you can slap on the system is infinite

The other benefit is that if you have a good knowledge of IT and I dont mean you have to be a specialist just someone that knows a little then you can actually install the server yourself as most of the install uses Wizards to set the server up, and also the remote accesss and mail system up.

I disagree. I don't think someone who has a reasonable grasp on how to use IT should be going down the route of setting up a server themselves. Yes, if you're sure you can secure it, and you don't mind the odd hacker getting in.

The SBS also support mobile devices so you can have your e-mail pushed to your mobile device so that you can reply to important mails directly from your device.

True... I'm not sure there are any push technologies advertised on linux - although it probably does exist.

I don't use Push. I could, but instead, I just set up my mail client to connect every 5 minutes and check my email. Works perfectly