Modern Apprenticeships

[Adventurelife]

I have just spent the morning reading about and jumping about various government funded websites with regards modern apprenticeships.

It was a lesson I can tell you. How many different government funded organisations can you get involved in something that should be relatively straight forward?

I stated that I was looking to get involved as an employer as I had some youths in mind who have proven themselves with us doing part time work.

I only had two questions

What courses are supported and what colleges support what courses? Could not find online.

So thinking it was me being thick I then went on to the phones and started calling the numbers. Without exception the answer was " I will have to get someone to call you back"

Be interesting to see how many calls I get back.

Peter

 

[Former Member 1]

I have just spent the morning reading about and jumping about various government funded websites with regards modern apprenticeships.

It was a lesson I can tell you. How many different government funded organisations can you get involved in something that should be relatively straight forward?

Couldn't agree more; it's a shambles....

As a college lecturer who is directly involved with student recruitment and selection I can tell you that we have serious difficulties getting referrals from any of these organisations...

 

[Adventurelife]

Got one call back so far from a nice lady who introduced me to yet another website! That said this one was a bit more useful.

I really had no idea all these organsisations existed, there seems to be endless amounts and I for one cannot join up the dots. They have got to be funded as no private sector organisation could survive in this manner.

Peter

 

[Former Member 1]

There's no doubt in my mind Peter that these 'agencies' exist to engage the witless, non-productive and unemployable members of the middle-classes....

It's been going on for generations. I once made the mistake of taking a job in a careers office; ALL the place was about was producing statistics; it certainly provided no useful function. And the few people there who had any real interest in helping young people were systematically crushed by the politics of the place... Working there (short lived as my 'career was) was one of the most soul-destroying experiences I've ever had....

It's just another way in which our tax is squandered...

 

[Adventurelife]

There's no doubt in my mind Peter that these 'agencies' exist to engage the witless, non-productive and unemployable members of the middle-classes....

It's been going on for generations. I once made the mistake of taking a job in a careers office; ALL the place was about was producing statistics; it certainly provided no useful function. And the few people there who had any real interest in helping young people were systematically crushed by the politics of the place... Working there (short lived as my 'career was) was one of the most soul-destroying experiences I've ever had....

It's just another way in which our tax is squandered...

First time I really have looked and it was driven by that fact we have a young guy who does part time jobs for us during school holidays. He will be leaving school soon and wants to work for us. At 16 I cannot employ him as much as he is way to young without the experience but his natural skills are very good. Therefore, I though I would explore the apprentice route with day release to college etc so he can gain qualifications.

Experience so far has been that I need more experience and qualification just to find my way around the jungle that is the agencies involved.

I suppose I should have known better as government money and hence our tax is involved.

Peter

 

[Former Member 1]

Day-Release courses in some fields are hard or impossible to find... I couldn't tell you who does them in Music Technology, Theatre, or TV for instance.... Frankly I doubt they exist.

But then the pattern in the TV industry is that we probably wouldn't even take on anyone, even as a runner, unless they were already qualified to HNC level... i.e. They'd done the first year of a course... It's often one of the shocks that new entrants to the industry face; and one of the traps because there an 'chancers' out there who will try to con kids into working for them for nothing.... And others who will 'sell' you 'Micky Mouse' letters after your name.....

Frankly; we need some regulation and co-ordination in the video industry...

However; you're not wanting to hear me rant about training to become a video producer...


I sniffed around a little and was pointed to this...

Our outdoor adventure studies courses — Lochaber College UHI

Could be the SVQ2 is a suitable jumping-off point? SVQs are workplace assessed and can be useful for anyone actually IN a job... SVQ 3/4 is about what I would call 'tradesman' level... and can be achieved part time in about 4 years....

North Glasgow College and James Watt also do courses that may be something you could build a 'traineeship' around..

Online Services Search Results

Bottom line is though, where there's a scheme there's a schemer; As both an employer and educator I'd give these schemes the bum's rush and talk directly to the colleges....

 

[aviemorebusiness]

I have had 2 scenarios on opposite ends of the spectrum to you and to be honest not sure that we ever resolved them. First one was a company I used to do some subcontracting work for had a young lad, similar to yourselves who was keen, a hard worker but needed to gain qualifications. We too looked into the SVQ route to find that one of us had to become an SVQ assessor and they would only train one of us up if there were 3 or more people wishing to do the SVQ course - small business - not a chance in hell of us being able to afford 3 'apprentices' so unfortunately we lost the young lad to another sector and we are all hanging our heads in shame that we couldnt help him out.

Second thing which is the total opposite but just makes my blood boil is that a couple of years ago we employed a guy part time as that was all we could afford at the time. He was 61 and claiming unemployment benefit. Extremely good at his job and we could really have employed him full time if we could afford it. So I started digging around to see if there was any way we could possibly get some top up funding for his wages. Bearing in mind we had taken him off the unemployment register and actually his GP was just about to sign him off sick with the stress of being out of work at the age of 61 which was turning him into a wreck - could we get a bean of help? Of course not. We could have done if he was 18 or under, unemployed for longer than a year, under 60, had a disability... the list is endless. I have absolutely no problem at all in anyone being assisted back to work or for employers to get some financial help in order to help people back into work, but the rules and regulations are just ridiculous.

Now there ends my rant as well.... sorry!

 

[Former Member 1]

As an SQA assessor, member of an SQA Qualifications Design Team and Lecturer I'm curious as to why you, as employers, were being railroaded into becoming assessors...

Broxburn Family Center (for instance) administer the SVQ 3/4 playworker's course. They provide course guidance and assessment and service a number of (1 and 2 person) childcare and play settings. I can assure you that I could cite several such settings where staff are currently undergoing SVQ 3/4 training where NO-ONE is an SQA assessor....

Many years ago my Wife and I did SVQ 3 business owner management courses; they were provided, assessed and administered by a local training firm....

As far as I'm lead to believe it's the delivering agency that provided assessment. And yes; a firm CAN become a delivering agency in its own right. In which case it becomes subject to the same external monitoring, moderation and verification procedures the colleges are subject to.....

That IS quite an undertaking!!

...But it would COMPLETELY defeat the purpose of the SVQ were this compulsory. Clearly "they" were the wrong people you were speaking to!

 

[aviemorebusiness]

Hi Matt, I think our naievity in the whole process didnt help and the other problem was it was golf course greenkeeping that we were looking into and there were no assessors in our area. I am aware that we are a bit out in the sticks so this was possibly whey they said we had to do it ourselves? The young lad in question is now a fully fledged postman that i see every morning and whilst it is a shame he has missed out on something that we all know he would have been good at, he is doing very well as a postie!

 

[Former Member 1]

http://www.sqa.org.uk/files_ccc/SQA_SVQ_handbook.pdf

Page 13..... SQA information for employers on the SVQ....

You could of course ‘buy in’ all the
services you require from a training
provider or college; in this case you
would not need to become an
approved centre.

 

[Former Member 1]

Hi Matt, I think our naievity in the whole process didnt help and the other problem was it was golf course greenkeeping that we were looking into and there were no assessors in our area. I am aware that we are a bit out in the sticks so this was possibly whey they said we had to do it ourselves? The young lad in question is now a fully fledged postman that i see every morning and whilst it is a shame he has missed out on something that we all know he would have been good at, he is doing very well as a postie!

Probably being out in the sticks didn't help.... But then it's common in a lot of industries to have to travel. People who leave my own course and wish to go into film production (as opposed to TV or documentary) really have to travel to Beaconsfield.... There ARE courses up here; but the 'serious players' who are headed for Hollywood....

I know certainly we see a LOT of students from the Islands, the North East and West Highlands...


Surprised Golf should be so badly served though! That's nothing short of shocking!

 

[aviemorebusiness]

Well we were clearly mislead completely werent we?! I dont remember who advised us at the time as it is over 2 years ago now, but I am definitely going to pass that link onto the guys at the golf club (I no longer work there now) just in case this comes up again. Thanks for your help... wish I had known you then!

 

[Former Member 1]

Well we were clearly mislead completely werent we?! I dont remember who advised us at the time as it is over 2 years ago now, but I am definitely going to pass that link onto the guys at the golf club (I no longer work there now) just in case this comes up again. Thanks for your help... wish I had known you then!

One of the threats to the SVQ is actually poor provision... And poor providers...

On one hand you have some fairly dubious attitudes on the part of some profit-oriented training providers, and on the other over-assessment by some of the socially oriented providers....

I suspect you've fallen foul of the former.

I've happily taken my students to an event over 100 miles away from the college in order to let them engage with a useful learning opportunity; clocking up over 350 miles and ten hours of unpaid overtime in the process. Most of my colleagues would do exactly the same...

But clearly some folk don't want to travel the length of their own arm, nor do they want to pass the business on to someone who will... The laddie may well be doing good work as a postie. But he'd obviously have stood a good chance of doing well as a greenkeeper; which is a skilled trade and one that could have taken him far...

Everybody loses out in this situation. Personally, I'd be tempted to raise the matter with the SQA. The SVQ provision is potentially a great platform; but it needs these 'weak seams' tightened up.

An assessor having to travel shouldn't be an issue. Just before the holidays we had an external verifier travel down from Aberdeen to check up on our work. The same chap regularly attends QDT meetings in Glasgow as do folk from the Islands.... Scotland's not a huge country and opportunity should be brought to every corner of it...

 

[Steve Haldane]

Got one call back so far from a nice lady who introduced me to yet another website! That said this one was a bit more useful.

I really had no idea all these organsisations existed, there seems to be endless amounts and I for one cannot join up the dots. They have got to be funded as no private sector organisation could survive in this manner.

Peter

From Steve Haldane, Business Development Manager, Rewards Training. There is undoubtedly a myriad of information, mis-information available. Typically I would recommend my own organisation :001_smile: However you should be able to get details from sqa.org.uk, failing that please contact me for assistance 0141 3328054 [email protected]