How should i deal with this?

[Scottish Business Owner]

I'm gonna chose my words carefully here but many of you will know I own scottishbusinessforums.co.uk and .com. Some of you will also be aware of issues I have had in the past with people trying to pass off a similar domain.

Cue the problem.....

A former member of this forum has decided to register scottishbusinessforums.org.uk (I dont want to post links as i'd rather not divert any traffic!).

Here is a link to the whois data for the forums one which is public information and widely available.

https://secure.internic.co.uk/cart/...n=lookup&domain=scottishbusinessforums.org.uk

Is this worth worrying about and getting worked up over or should I just see it for what it is?

 

[Boxby]

Did member in question leave amicably, or was it a spit and hell fire type of relationship?

 

[Gordon N]

Oh dear - not again!!!!

To be honest I think he (and his 7 other members! ) will struggle to steal any potential members from a site that is as well branded and recognisable as SBF, but that said it is a bit of a thorn.

I would guess that the majority of traffic arriving here on the real SBF comes from organic search results and direct links. Unless he starts outperforming you on the engines it doesn't pose too much of a threat.

As for playing off your domain/business name, well thats another matter all together - I for one would be annoyed, but I know it was a lot of work the last time around.

 

[Scottish Business Owner]

Did member in question leave amicably, or was it a spit and hell fire type of relationship?

I wouldn't call it amicable.

 

[Former Member 1]

Couldn't get your link to work ....

However, I believe we have discussed issues of 'passing off' before. And you can be sure that I and many other members will give you the fullest practical and moral support we can...

I've looked through the handful of posts that are up there Thank goodness I'm not in the corporate video pruction business... :lol::lol::lol:

I've said for many years that the 'we do anything for anybody' line is the mark of the charlatan. It smacks of desperation, as does the blatant theft of another person's goodwill.

Clearly the male member (I assume it IS a bloke? :001_tongue who did this is unable to compete on any sort of legitimate level. He's probably just hammered the last few tin-tacks into the coffin lid of his already non-existent business. It beggars belief that anyone should be so stupid; and this is very very stupid indeed. Essentially what has been done here is (in my opinion) blatantly dishonest.... It's not competition, it's not imitation it's simply as cheap, shoddy and as fraudulent as $10 Rolex...

And really, it taints the businesses who will associate themselves with it. As the old saying goes: You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas....

 

[stugster]

Let it also be known that the businesses that have subscribed to those forums probably - and in one case, certainly - don't even know they've done it.

The owner of that particular forum has subscribed these users himself and posted on their behalf in an attempt to trick the Google search engine and generate fake links back to his client(s?) site.

Black hat SEO anyone?


One can only assume that he is doing this perhaps because he doesn't have the knowledge to optimise sites, and instead, just has to go battering out as many inbound links to his clients as possible instead.

 

[Former Member 1]

Let it also be known, that the businesses that have subscribed to those forums probably (and in one case - certainly) don't even know they've done it.

The owner of that particular forum has subscribed these users himself, and posted on their behalf in an attempt to trick the Google search engine and generate fake links back to his clients site.

Two of the four businesses on there I've never heard of. One is closely associated with this 'group' of people. And from the posts they made on here (and what they've published themselves and 'in house' chatter within the industry) are bunch of complete charlatans struggling to gain any sort of business...

The fourth; well I'd be shocked to learn that was a genuine membership. And the person who's name he's abusing may well have a course of action available via the defamation act....

Black hat SEO anyone?


One can only assume that he is doing this perhaps because he doesn't have the knowledge to optimise sites, and instead, just has to go battering out as many inbound links to his clients as possible instead.

I think you're giving him too much credit... In my opinion you're almost certainly dealing with a fraud; whether they're just basically dishonest or verging on the mentally ill isn't clear... But if this is SEO at all it's just plain incompetent....

Somehow I'm reminded of

http://www.scottishbusinessforums.c...ess/389-cre8tive-unique-dynamic-websites.html

As I I said in one of my posts on that thread....

"I could point you in the direction of a 1/2 dozen ***** *****. Some are close to their 7th decade and are still scrabbling around playing the same old game they were 30 years ago. Some appear to be new entrants to the Arfur Daley school of business!"

The 'word on the street' with this one is that someone's 'mummy' supplied 'the necessary' for a group of people (and there are at least three 'businesses' involved) to set up with some apparent degree of legitimacy... i.e. limited companies (£30 each!) and enough to gain occupancy of business premises for a while, plus I believe there was some equipment bought...

Some of the people involved are just silly rich kids who have been fooled. But stirring up the whole operation are possibly a couple of older 'sorts' with a bit of a history of this sort of thing...

Yes; CERTAINLY the person directly responsible for this one lacks anything near the level of technical knowledge they claim...

Again, from one of my previous posts...

"When you see a broad brush of skills like that coming from a big company you know it's going to cost you because they're keeping specialists in each discipline on staff on competitive salaries. When you see a broad brush of skills coming from one person at best they'll be strong in one or two areas. What's dangerous is that they're taking what can only be a rudimentary knowledge of other complex disciplines and claiming expertise where none exists. Dangerous because it's not only the client's money they're taking but their business reputation is potentially at risk....

In short they're a 'jack of all trades' and master of none. NOt able to operate at a high level in any specialism they scratch about desperately trying to source scraps of work doing anything for anybody.....

The only field that's worse than the building trade for this type of 'operator' is the creative industries... "

It seems someone took that advice to heart. For in this case they've spread the load of their incompetence around quite a bit. But it STILL doesn't alter the fact that NONE of these people are what they say they are... Which is ACTUALLY the reason why their operation(s) are failing.

It's an unfortunate fact of life in the creative industries that, at a superficial level, many disciplines seem easy to pick up. Everybody and his dog THINKS he's a Photographer, or a Video Producer or a Web Designer simply because they've acquired a limited amount of capability in these fields thanks to new technology...

But ALL these disciplines are in fact (at a professional level) management and technical processes FAR more complex than is readily or commonly appreciated; sometimes even by folk who really should know better!

 

[Jack Kane]

I think I read somewhere that even if you haven't registered your domain name as a trademark, if you have been using it for enough time and it's clearly your name/trademark, then there is something that can be done to block people doing things like this. I'm afraid I could be mixed up with copyright here, but it's worth checking out.

I've had similar with my forums in the past, but the way I see it is that my forums are run by me, my admins and moderators. It's my personality (no smart comments please! :w00t and the personality of the people who make my forums what they are. Nobody can recreate that, no matter how hard they try or how much money they have. We are in fact unique, and to be honest, I laugh at people trying to copy it.

They may have something different to what we have, but they won't ever compare.

I think your loyal followers will support you and your forums and the other one simply can't compete. They have just wasted their money as far as I can tell.

I'm sure with all your contacts on these forums you can muster up a little bit of internet law advice and maybe even a nice polite letter from a solicitor?

 

[Tim Barlow]

Hi

I doubt he'll get much traction but I'd speak to a lawyer anyway (there must be one on this fourm by now!)

My (very novice) understanding - your name will be untrademarkable but you should be able to get a device (your thistle) registered. How this impacts on passing off I don't know. Copyright claim could be possible based on the similarity of both the name and the way the forums have been structured (I've screenshoted the page just in case it is changed before you have a chance) and indeed the members he's "attracted" so far.

 

[abs]

I think these people are very stupid and very sad that they have to copy someone else's ideas, it just shows how little their brains are and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Theresia

 

[Former Member 1]

I think I read somewhere that even if you haven't registered your domain name as a trademark, if you have been using it for enough time and it's clearly your name/trademark, then there is something that can be done to block people doing things like this.

That's a very good point Jack.....

CLEARLY this is part of 's business... In that sense it's a trading name....

"passing off" is quite clearly illegal.... I've had success taking people down the legal route for this in the past...

 

[iainswanston]

Hi - I don't know who the people involved are and the nature of their original business but I cannot imagine that building your business/forum has not taken alot of time, money and effort. In order for anyone to compete with you they will need to do the same which usually means their existing will suffer or as is usually the case both business's will suffer.
In summary for this competitive forum to be any threat the owners other business will suffer or more than likely they will make a dogs whots nots of both business's - either way who cares.

 

[PennyPR]

It takes time and effort (or money) to gain traction. It's not easy and you have it. Who wants to be part of something with under 10 posts and a whole lot of negativity from the keener online networkers in Scotland?

 

[johnthesearcher]

It would appear that the person/people in question have indeed 'thrown their toys out of the cot' and the purchase of the .org domain is simply a 'childish' spiteful response which will lead them nowhere.

The fact that they are under the illusion that simply buying a domain name will establish credibility and respect for them is frankly niaive to say the least.

There are almost 1100 subscribers to the SBF and I'm convinced you will have the support of every single one of them with whatever means you choose to react to what has to be one the most stupidest actions of 2009.

Jack makes a good point in that "and the personality of the people who make my forums what they are. Nobody can recreate that, no matter how hard they try or how much money they have. We are in fact unique, and to be honest, I laugh at people trying to copy it. They may have something different to what we have, but they won't ever compare"

Matt nails it with his comment that "It's an unfortunate fact of life in the creative industries that, at a superficial level, many disciplines seem easy to pick up. Everybody and his dog THINKS he's a Photographer, or a Video Producer or a Web Designer simply because they've acquired a limited amount of capability in these fields thanks to new technology..."

There is a great deal of comfort in the fact that both you and the other SBF Administrators have put a great deal of time and creativity into the forum and the volume of members, threads and posts is testament to that.

In my opinion - and one endorsed by the replies to this particular thread - that you and the Admin team have created what will continue to be the 'best forum on the planet' no matter how many .org children creep out of the woodwork.

John

 

[Gutsy]

Gotta agree with Theresia. I'm trying, and failing to see the sense of spending time and potentially money trying to almost impersonate an established forum, when you could be putting energy into developing something different. It hardly creates a good image for you from the outset, does it? I also agree with what Tim says - it's not likely to survive, at all, but could be worth checking out with a lawyer.

 

[Employment Law Services]

- PM on its way to you now!!

 

[stugster]

and failing to see the sense of spending time and potentially money trying to almost impersonate an established forum

Too much time on their hands, not enough clients?

Nah, they're doing it because they've run out of options I think. There comes a point where the SEO guys who might not be the real deal need to fraudulently create back-links for their clients to try and deceive Google and other search engines.

That's all it seems to be. That, and a [very very poor] attempt at a slap in the face to the real, better, Scottish Business Forums.

 

[anned]

What a shame and a waste of everybody's time and energy.
I have no idea as to the legalities or technicalities of this, but I'd just make one observation. I have come across and (briefly ) been a member of several sites with similar names and supposed strategies, but it is always the one with the best members that survives -the others tend to wither on the vine.

We have also had someone rip off our website with an almost identical name and copycat pages -in the US, but we ended up coming to an arrangement to work with him -was in our interests to do so.

Anne

 

[Power Lunch Club]

I think you're giving him too much credit... In my opinion you're almost certainly dealing with a fraud; whether they're just basically dishonest or verging on the mentally ill isn't clear... But if this is SEO at all it's just plain incompetent....

You are possibly correct Matt about him being dishonest and or verging on the mentally ill...after getting his knuckles rapt for trying to pass himself off as Scottish Business Forums,....he has gone and now pointed his domain to another organistion website....a different business altogether from SBF....plus clearly trying to pass himself as this different organisation now. And this different one will not tolerate this behaviour either.

I mean how pathetic and childish is this supposed adult going to keep behaving like this. Real throwing the toys out of the pram stuff here.

He clearly can't be busy.

 

[Former Member 1]

I'll open this post by saying that I personally stand by the content hereof and the views I am expressing here are my own and not necessarily shared by anyone else on the forum; least of all its owners.

My own view is that the man must be suffering from some sort of condition whereby his delusions over-ride any sort of grasp of the realities or consequences of these plainly very stupid actions. The people who's good name he is now apparently trying to hijack are very serious players on the Scottish business scene... And some cursory research would quickly reveal the level of legal expertise they have in-house...

Incredibly stupid to 'take their name in vain'....

I crossed swords with this individual on this forum. And I'll be blunt in expressing the opinion that that he is either an extremely dishonest or unwell person; possibly a combination of both... Certainly his responses to me indicated an near-imbecilic lack of knowledge of subjects he claimed expertise in. That fact alone renders him (at best) a flim-flam artist...

My own initial investigations reveal such other irregularities as discrepancies between the registered address held at Companies House and the main trading address he is now using. Companies House also record overdue accounts. And I have had sight of invoices issued by him which do not comply with the law in respect of such things (as such unlawful and invalid).

Sadly, business service industries and the creative industries in particular seem to 'draw' these types. Which is just one of many reasons why it's important, when seeking such services, to make sure you're hiring properly trained and legitimately qualified people... Not always easy! Purely for instance and by way of illustration, a week's course in video production or some 'Micky Mouse' qualification obtained via a pseudo-academic 'institute' do not a video producer make! For the record a basic qualification will take no less than 2400 hours of study over a minumum of two years. And can only be obtained from a bona-fide academic institution...

The same principal applies throughout the creative and service industries. And it's quite telling that the one bit of fakery our troubles acquaintance couldn't quite manage was any kind of credible record of education or training; such things being quite public and easily checked... WHO was he at Uni with? WHICH firm did he train with?

Questions that should always be asked...

If an older person with a bit of a track record COULD it be verified? What CREDIBLE firms or organisations have they worked for that we can check? Not snooping or mistrust; just due diligence....

You're quite right Gordon; he can't be busy... Won't be busy in fact... You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. And this is what Low life like him prey on. However we have the advantage here in Scotland that (thanks to initiatives such as SBF) the business community is small and relatively tight knit.

The creative industries particularly so; and increasingly protectionist...

Members of the SBF 'family' were taken in by this sheister (And if he doesn't like that term I'd LOVE to see him in court! think of all that lovely publicity!); guess what the effect of that will be? Now he's playing fast and loose with bigger guns.... HMRC have already been alerted to his shennanigans. The Press are watching him...

Havilng P!$$ed-off and riled just about everyone he can what future for this particular flim-flam-man?

Trouble is people like him are oh-too common....:sad: