What Sort of Guarantee Should You Expect From an SEO

[PeterHoggan]

Search engines provide a gateway to your website and are responsible for referring targeted visitors that have already declared an interest in the products or services that you sell. Well perhaps in an ideal world that’s how it should work, in reality without effective SEO these same search engines are just as effective at providing a gateway to your competitors websites.

The goals of each SEO campaign are different, increased opt-ins, leads, sales or forum membership are just a few possibilities. As someone approaching an SEO company, what sort of guarantee would you expect that the goals of your particular campaign would be met?

 

[Boxby]

Bizarrely, those SEO companies that currently offer guarantees, are the companies that make the alarmbells ring.

But as a client, going to a new SEO company, that offers no guarantees is incredibily nerve racking and stressful.

I have no idea, but will be interested in the thread.

 

[stuarty]

None. Google states in it's webmaster guidelines that no one can guarantee rankings.

 

[PeterHoggan]

None. Google states in it's webmaster guidelines that no one can guarantee rankings.

Sort of guessed it would be a SEO that quoted Google's position on rankings. Its a shield that too many SEO's hide behind when things go wrong. However, does my post mention rankings?

 

[Canary Dwarf]

I think all businesses should be able to offer some sort of guarantee. SEOs should make it clear that their work will make improvements to their searchability, but that results are subject to outside influences and therefore to offer a guarantee of that nature would undermine the integrity of their service.

 

[stuarty]

Sort of guessed it would be a SEO that quoted Google's position on rankings. Its a shield that too many SEO's hide behind when things go wrong. However, does my post mention rankings?

As an 'seo' yourself you would know that you can't guarantee anything be it rank, traffic, sales or anything else related. You've worked for an 'seo' company with the 'big gob' and both of us know that no big 'seo' company offers guarantees in their contracts precisly because they can't.

Edit: Guarantees are things you can deliver. If you can't deliver something then you can't guarantee it.

 

[PeterHoggan]

SEOs should make it clear that their work will make improvements to their searchability...

This might not reflect whats important to the client, furthermore, there may not be a need to improve searchability.

 

[PeterHoggan]

Stuart, Allthough google say that no guarantee can be given on positions which I agree with they also go on to say:

Make sure you're protected legally.

For your own safety, you should insist on a full and unconditional money-back guarantee. Don't be afraid to request a refund if you're unsatisfied for any reason, or if your SEO's actions cause your domain to be removed from a search engine's index. Make sure you have a contract in writing that includes pricing. The contract should also require the SEO to stay within the guidelines recommended by each search engine for site inclusion.

Here Google is insisting that you should insist on a guarantee. The “Google says you can’t guarantee nuffin guv” argument is crap and each time an SEO uses it as a get out of jail free card they seem to conveniently forget the above.

That being the case shouldn’t we consider the goals of each campaign individually and tailor a guarantee to suit individual campaign deliverables rather than spout the same old dogma that has plagued the SEO industry for years?

Anyway your point of view is clear, no guarantee for any reason at any time.

 

[stuarty]

Make sure you're protected legally.

For your own safety, you should insist on a full and unconditional money-back guarantee. Don't be afraid to request a refund if you're unsatisfied for any reason, or if your SEO's actions cause your domain to be removed from a search engine's index. Make sure you have a contract in writing that includes pricing. The contract should also require the SEO to stay within the guidelines recommended by each search engine for site
Anyway your point of view is clear, no guarantee for any reason at any time.

I think you'll find that google have been taken to issue on this point and what you're doing is twisting things. We have contracts and as I said before you've worked in a big seo company and no doubt seen their contracts. When google did this the legit seos were up in arms because it caused lots of companies to withhold payment because their idea of satisfaction was number 1 for every phrase - as you well know!

This particular clause has been well covered in our contracts as well as every 'seo' company that I have good relations with! I've seen their contracts and we use the same lawyers in some cAses. Google incidentally forgot that laws in different countries have different interpretations concerning money back clauses and definitions of satisfaction!

 

[PeterHoggan]

I dont think I am twisting things and the statment makes perfect sense to me. I am interested to hear that Google were taken to task over this, could you supply a link to any covarage of the matter.

 

[PeterHoggan]

When google did this the legit seos were up in arms because it caused lots of companies to withhold payment because their idea of satisfaction was number 1 for every phrase - as you well know!

Legit SEO's dont guarantee number 1 positions and should be clear about it , so I cant see the problem. Perhaps they should have stuck that in their contracts too!

 

[stuarty]

Peter how long have you been in seo (or out of it)? Do you issue contracts to your clients? Are you a member of the main seo forums?

When google first announced this the boards were awash with seo companies contesting this clause. Google dont need to remove it because its a guideline!

You should remember the hypocrisy Over google threatening people with paid links. Google aren't right in every thing they say!

It's like telling your lawyer you want your money back because you were convicted and you weren't satisfied.

From this i can only presume that You dont sign legal protection contracts with your clients because if you did then you would hve sat down with a lawyer
and went through this particular point. We even have it covered in our professional indemnity.

 

[PeterHoggan]

I am not looking for a link to another forum, full of seo's taking about a guideline they didn’t like. I was looking for something that substantiates your claim that it contravened the law in certain countries and if the UK was one of them, otherwise your point is academic.

You can presume what you like about contracts.

I have been involved in SEO for 11 years but dont pay much attention to the main seo forums. Thanks for asking!

 

[polr]

Bizarrely, those SEO companies that currently offer guarantees, are the companies that make the alarmbells ring.

Completly agree with Boxby. We're an Internet Marking company also as we in no way offer guarantees or sales (it smacks of a £5 a month, get you to no. 1 in Google in 10 minutes spammy email! ;-) )

I don't think we should be treated differently to more traditional marketing. For example, we have advertised in magazines etc and although the response was rubbish we never asked for a refund as we had taken a chance on a service and that company had done what they said i.e placed an advert. We just never used them again! I have also refused to use various types of marketing outlets that have guaranteed a set number of responses as I know there is NO way they can force this (unless they make the enquiries themselves of course!).

I can't think of any SEO that offers guarantees but it'd be good to hear from someone who does and whether it is a positive or negative thing to do (as per Boxby's reaction).

 

[Power Lunch Club]

The key word for me here has always been the word 'optimisation'!! It is obvious to anyone that there can be no guarentee's for a persons website.

But what SEO can 'gaurentee' is that they will optimise a companies chances by working hard to target keywords/phrases that ensure a good return when search

 

[stuarty]

Legit SEO's dont guarantee number 1 positions and should be clear about it , so I cant see the problem. Perhaps they should have stuck that in their contracts too!

I never said legit SEOs were guaranteeing #1 positions! The point I made was that their clients saw it in Googles terms - took this as gospel and started - holding SEOs to ransom. This kicked off around 2003 when Google first introduced this in their guidelines on the back of rogue SEO companies gaming search engines.

There are lawyers that specialise in working with IT/Web companies. The one we use drew up our contract because a client tried this on with us 4 years ago by not paying their bills all the while raking in huge orders on the back of work we did for them.

I never said it contravened any laws. I said that Google were taken to issue on this - which they were. And as you know well at the time when Google would not anwer anyone, this was the same time Google's Matt Cutts was posting information/disinformation on the major SEO forums. I know you know this because you discussed these very points when you used to email me and phone me up.

I pointed out that different countries have different laws - Scotland and England for example have different laws concerning contracts. My presumption was based on the fact that if you have got a legally binding contract to cover your work then you will know about percieved performance/quality/results relating to service industries - it's written in black and white on ours. (And it's the same for many service industries.)

Do you honestly think any legit SEO company is going to spend considerable effort and resources doing work (without a contract) for a client for them to make profits for them then to turn round and say "sorry mate" we're not number 1 so we're not paying you because it says so in Google's guidelines? Googles guidelines are just that - guidelines and not a contract or a point of law so they can say what they want and never respond. (as you know).

 

[stuarty]

The key word for me here has always been the word 'optimisation'!! It is obvious to anyone that there can be no guarentee's for a persons website.

But what SEO can 'gaurentee' is that they will optimise a companies chances by working hard to target keywords/phrases that ensure a good return when search

I agree :thumbup:

 

[PeterHoggan]

I didn’t say legit SEOs were guaranteeing number 1 positions either, what I did say was that if no guarantee of positions was made clear from the onset and included in any contract it should never be an issue.

Sorry I did misread the part about legal issues, my apologies.

I am not suggesting that any SEO should work without a contract.

 

[Scottish Business Owner]

I think I would have to agree with Lynne on this. From a website owner perspective I see SEO very much being in the same vein as advertising be that online or offline. It's a punt to a certain extent and ultimately you spend more if you get a good return.

I would say in SEO's defence that the longevity of traditional advertising is far shorter than seo. Once an ad is printed and hits a magazine/newspaper its tomorrow's chip paper. SEO done well i'm sure will provide far more long term gain.

Even taking it from my view in terms of what my goals would be for this forum. I dont get caught up in how many members I have because I think that's vanity. I tend to guage how well it's going by how many post we do per week and per month and track this against other forums. I know I could easily aquire software etc that could have me 10,000 members within 6 months but there would be no quality there becuase 9,000 of them would be crap. From my point of view I have to trust in vBSEO that I use on these forums and I have to say I think it's working if you go and check the terms business forums on google (last time I checked we were no. 11).

So in essence I wouldn't expect a guarantee and would be suspicious of anyone or any company that offered such a thing. What I would expect though was progress that I could validate and for many companies that should be easy as they should be getting more sales. Just my 2p

 

[stuarty]

my apologies

No apology needed at all Peter. It's only different viewpoints,opinions and debate.

There's too much bad karma towards SEOs on ethics, expectations, results from the client side but very few discussions where the client is the rogue and the SEO is the victim. Maybe this has highlighted the fact that SEOs can get stung too. It's reminded me that I need make sure our contracts are up to date so if anything thanks for starting the thread in the first place.

Mind you I might not be thanking you after I get the bill from our lawyers for changing a few words in our contracts mind you :001_tongue: (feckin lawyers )