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SEO and Forum Posting

peteark

Banned
The subject of snake oilers use of forums to benefit their own standing within search engines was a discussion point a few days ago. Here are my own points from an SEO standpoint

Forums can be a good source of generating backlinks if you understand, how they work and how to go about it.

Let's be clear 1000 posts on a forum will not lead to 1000 backlinks with Google, fact you may generate 3, that's if your lucky. The 3 you do get will lose strength over time as they are moved backwards

The main problem with targeting forums is they are software based, therefore they are hardly viewed as unique and the amount of links on any one page can be excessive. I have a hand coded directory that outranks all the software ones for my targeted keywords.

So, what is the best way to use forums as part of an oily strategy?

Open an account
List your URL in your control panel
Start 2 threads
Leave

Repeat this 5 times a week for 2 years and you will see some benefit

Factors that affect the score given by search engines

Is the forum on theme with your website
Is the forum sub section on theme with your website
Does the forum incorporate the no-follow attribute
Is the forum well ranked
Do you use anchor text in your posts
Is your post of good quality or a one liner
How many links are on the page
Is the page indexed
How old is the forum
Is the forum using search engine friendly URL's (we can see this forum isn't)
Are these threads well populated
Is the forum full of sidelink advertising links
How popular is the forum
How often is your link clicked, if clicked how long will the clicker spend on your site.

Here are just a few of the factors, the trouble is the 'oily' brigade have not researched their link building strategy, with most reading things like, post on forums and comment on blogs and you will be fine. Of course there is so much more to it than that, but who is ever going to educate them? The result of course is good quality forums like this will always have the problem.
 

Kevin

New Member
The subject of snake oilers use of forums to benefit their own standing within search engines was a discussion point a few days ago. Here are my own points from an SEO standpoint

Forums can be a good source of generating backlinks if you understand, how they work and how to go about it.

Let's be clear 1000 posts on a forum will not lead to 1000 backlinks with Google, fact you may generate 3, that's if your lucky. The 3 you do get will lose strength over time as they are moved backwards

The main problem with targeting forums is they are software based, therefore they are hardly viewed as unique and the amount of links on any one page can be excessive. I have a hand coded directory that outranks all the software ones for my targeted keywords.

So, what is the best way to use forums as part of an oily strategy?

Open an account
List your URL in your control panel
Start 2 threads
Leave

Repeat this 5 times a week for 2 years and you will see some benefit

Factors that affect the score given by search engines

Is the forum on theme with your website
Is the forum sub section on theme with your website
Does the forum incorporate the no-follow attribute
Is the forum well ranked
Do you use anchor text in your posts
Is your post of good quality or a one liner
How many links are on the page
Is the page indexed
How old is the forum
Is the forum using search engine friendly URL's (we can see this forum isn't)
Are these threads well populated
Is the forum full of sidelink advertising links
How popular is the forum
How often is your link clicked, if clicked how long will the clicker spend on your site.

Here are just a few of the factors, the trouble is the 'oily' brigade have not researched their link building strategy, with most reading things like, post on forums and comment on blogs and you will be fine. Of course there is so much more to it than that, but who is ever going to educate them? The result of course is good quality forums like this will always have the problem.

I would agree with some of your points , however Links in a forum post will have little or no effect on your SEO. They should only be used to help promote your business.
 

peteark

Banned
Kevin when discussing SEO it is nice for providers to back up their theories with some kind of in depth research, this way readers who are unfamiliar with the processes will have a better understanding.

You state there is no SEO benefit to forum posting, this general comment I disagree with, I made a few forum posts yesterday, one of these was indexed by Google and came through my Google Alert channel this morning.

Some forums score very highly, most don't, the reason for this was highlighted by my in depth post.

The only way an SEO provider can really confirm their theories is by having a website at the top of Google (No1) for a very competitive phrase and a host of clients who have the same, I can clearly demonstrate this, most can't.
 
The subject of snake oilers use of forums to benefit their own standing within search engines was a discussion point a few days ago. Here are my own points from an SEO standpoint

All that you've written is noted. And unsurprising.... How to ABUSE a forum!

Forums exist to facilitate discussion between like minded parties. Abusing forums for other purposes such as linkspamming absorb bandwidth and eventually overwhelm the board to the point where it no longer serves its original purpose. It becomes unreadable!

Many boards rank highly on search engines BECAUSE they carry truckloads of linkspam. And they may get loads of traffic because of that. And as a result of that may be able to sell advertising space at a premium....

But what of what value is that space? None at all in my opinion. Because what's important to an advertiser is not the quantity of readership traffic but the quality of it... Tolerating linkspam devalues that traffic. Which means that eventually the forum ceases to benefit its owner, its advertisers and the legitimate users.

In fact eventually the ONLY people the forum benefits are those who contribute nothing of any worth to it.... The phrase cuckoo in the nest springs to mind.

My own feeling is that such activities should NOT be tolerated to ANY degree by forum owners or moderators or indeed the membership. I have NO problem with people posting links to their own business. Or genuinely useful links within a post. But when linkspam is posted under ANY pretext it should be deleted.

As for linkspammers themselves. Well the obvious ones need to be immediately banned. The more subtle ones; once they've paid out enough rope to hang themselves.

Likewise with contrived posts that link to random junk sites... Paint it how you like. It's linkspam it's destructive and it serves ONLY the ends of the spammer. This is NOT a legitimate business practice. It's on a par with selling fake Rolexes off ebay or dodgy knock-off baseball caps 'round the local pubs. In essence its the theft of goodwill, bandwidth, and an attempt to defeat the legitimate purposes of certain facilities.

For MY part I'm going to ask for a CLEAR statement of forum policy on this matter. In my view it too often happens that spammers are banned yet the linkspam they've posted is allowed to stand. In my view the baby should not get it's bottle in this regard and while it might be useful to let posts stand I have to question why the board is allowed to serve a purpose for these people.

In the meantime I'm going to sign out of the forum on a semi-permanent basis while I consider if there is any point in remaining an SBF member. If anyone feel the need to get in touch please just email me, don't PM as obviously I won't be accessing the PM system.

Contributing positively to a forum like this absorbs time and effort. An investment that is worthwhile if the quality of the platform and of other contributors is adequate. It matters not to me at what level a contributor's business operates; whether it's a home-based business turning over a few quid a week or a major multinational. I'm interested in exchanging views with all legitimate business people. But I really DON'T have any time for penny-anny spivs. I mean what next? Posts about where to get fake designer handbags and how to avoid the wrath of pub landlords? How to dodge the polis while you're selling knock-off on the street corner? How to fake an MOT or how to silence a noisy gearbox by stuffing a bri-nylon shirt into it?

I for one do not endorse censorship. Yet if propriety is not observed then we descend down a particularly slippery slope. The SBF is currently on the edge of that slope. I guess its up to and the rest of the membership how far the forum descends.

But for the moment... I'm out!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

peteark

Banned
Matt you are probably doing the right thing to take a break the trouble is at present you cannot see the wood for the trees.

I have been involved in a few good discussions over the past week, each post I personally consider helpful and informative. Put it another way, I do a few weeks consultation a year where people pay good money for this kind of information.

Of course as my business is based around Internet marketing at times it's better to post a link to get a point of view across, that said my own business link will not be displayed for 12 months, as I stated earlier.

The only way to combat link spamming is to have a private forum, funnily enough I was a member of one, the rules were clear, no links and no advertising of private enterprises. Within 2 months the only people doing this were the forum committee, when I raised an objection and requested the reason for this, I was banned....lol

I own 2 forums, soon to be 3, link spammers don't bother me unless they take the piss, if that happens I just ban them. That has happened twice in 12 months.

Getting stressed and throwing your cards in seems childish which will put the site owners in a difficult position as you are giving ultimatums.
 
Scottish Business Owner

Scottish Business Owner

New Member
I will reply in here and also to Matt via email.

I think we are generally quite good at combatting people who spam the boards etc. There is one user at the moment who myself and Stu have been discussing (it's no one in here by the way!) regarding possible spamming.

I only recall one post where Pete posted some links and i'm sure they were there to highlight a point and not just to spam. I actually like the fact that Pete is very honest in his posts as the industry he is in has it's fair share of jokers.

I have seen other forums adopt a policy where new members can only post links after a certain number of posts. In my opinion new users find this frustrating so it's not something I would like to do on SBF.

I would also point out the red triangle at the top of every post which can be used to report spam issues etc. Having discussed with a few other members the conclusion seems to be that there isn't a major problem on SBF that is concerning them.

I am of course happy to hear other people's view on this :)
 

peteark

Banned
Thanks

There would be no justifiable reason for me to spam or post links in a devious manner on a forum I would like to use on a regular basis.

Google are moving towards devaluing none contextual links, giving more strength to blog posts (not comments),articles and press releases. In time this will filter down to webmasters. I doubt forums will ever alleviate the problem entirely but it should help. The move by Google will be a headache for the snake oil merchants as there is a world of difference between producing an articulate, unique, relevant transcript with an embedded link than simply dropping off a URL.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tim Barlow

Tim Barlow

New Member
The only way an SEO provider can really confirm their theories is by having a website at the top of Google (No1) for a very competitive phrase and a host of clients who have the same

Sorry to go off topic but my view is it isn't quite as simple as that. "All swans are white" may seem like a sound theory to many (I actually saw a black swan for the first time the other day).

One example of this is the "having keywords in a domain name gives a ranking boost" theory - there are many examples to support that theory. In all likelyhood, the reason keyword domains tend to do well (if ranking is your only criteria for success) is down to reasons other than the fact that Google et al look at the keywords in a domain name.

Further, just because a technique produces rankings today, does not mean it will tomorrow. If selecting an SEO firm you need to see results yes, but you also need to understand exactly how they achieve the results. Lets face it, there are few SEO firms that doesn't claim to be ethical these days.

Pete - thought your original post was excellent.
 

peteark

Banned
Now that is a cracking point,,,, how are results achieved. I think I will expand on that at some point and add it to my homepage, thanks Tim

I had to laugh I asked a client last night if he had a few words I could add to my testimonial page, I always put them up as they are, he set me this

It has been a pleasure to work with Pete across all my three websites. He knows what he is talking about, is dedicated to his clients well being and does not bullshit!
 

peteark

Banned
In general terms SEO and its implementation has to be carefully planned out, even then some systems work, some don't.

One of my better moves a year and a half ago was to attach a directory to my site, the initial reason was to have a platform to build reciprocal links. As the directory became more popular I realised it was a good link baiting tool, so I worked on the presentation and changed the setup so you could add a regular link in exchange for a link on a resources page or a premium listing in exchange for a homepage link. The directory is now growing that quickly it will be amended again next month to build on it even further.

I always work towards implementing one system that has multiple benefits, how better to populate a site than to get others to add their own content to it? The problem with this will always be having the time to mange it, that said if the system is implemented correctly even this nuisance can be minimised.

The Internet was not designed as a money making portal for entrepreneurs, it is a global resource where search engines give benefit to sites that actively give something of value back to the community, this is a headache for businesses, they wrongly believe its about visually displaying their business model well.
 
Tim Barlow

Tim Barlow

New Member
One of my better moves a year and a half ago was to attach a directory to my site, the initial reason was to have a platform to build reciprocal links. As the directory became more popular I realised it was a good link baiting tool, so I worked on the presentation and changed the setup so you could add a regular link in exchange for a link on a resources page or a premium listing in exchange for a homepage link.

Works today (or does it? Could it actually be holding your rankings back?) but will it tomorrow? If it genuinely adds value to visitors then it probably has a good chance of doing so. If it is clear that it is simply about gaining rankings, well that could be interesting!
 

peteark

Banned
Not sure about holding my ranking back, I avoided targeting the phrase 'search engine optimisation' as it's ultra competitive, however 3 weeks ago I took the decision to target the phrase, with a long term plan of 5 years to get it onto page 1. The site is now listed on page 3.

As for the directory holding back the site I don't think so as all listings are listed as 'no-follow' although submissions themselves rank very highly after a few months, which is the idea of a directory, to improve a sites visibility and not chase page ranking.

The improvements will only add more value as each page will display more information with Google maps, images, video, coupons etc. The fact the directory is hand coded helps a lot.

At the same time I will also be introducing a free press release service for small businesses.

Everything I try to implement is geared around improving the visitors experience, if the success of this is measured by my current search engine positioning, then its working.
 
Tim Barlow

Tim Barlow

New Member
Everything I try to implement is geared around improving the visitors experience, if the success of this is measured by my current search engine positioning, then its working.

Had a feeling that would be the case - good job.
 
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