Scotland - A National Conversation

[Scottish Business Owner]

I've been holding off posting this thread for fear of it getting too political but hey what the heck!

This conversation was launched last year by the SNP government to explore the concept of independence as well looking at other forms of constitutional change. You can read all about it below:-

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/a-national-conversation

Where does everyone sit with the view of an independent Scotland? Would you support this or do you think the best option just now would be to seek more powers for the parliament?

We have political parties in this country opposed wholeheartedly to idea of Independence, i'd like to understand if this is party line coming from London or indeed a real concern that Scotland could not be independent.

I'd love to hear some of your views, with a bit of luck this will be very popular and we can sticky it

 

[Brian McIntosh]

I've been a supporter of total independence since the first vote for independence in, I think, 1977. I stayed in Aberdeen at the time and I can vividly remember the arguments about the vote being rigged. In my opinion, there is no point in having a Scottish Parliament that doesn't have full powers over our country. Independent countries, smaller than ours, are doing very well so why can't we?

 

[Brian]

I'd love to see a balanced argument taking into account all the factors but politicians being politicians it's likely that this whole conversation will be spun continually.

I'd like to think we could support ourselves and maybe even flourish as an independent nation, there's certainly some other small countries that we can look to like Norway etc to see it is possible. Whether we will see it even in my lifetime i'm not so sure but I think it will happen eventually.

Brian IFA

 

[Scottish Business Owner]

Any more views on this? Maybe some people missed this thread

 

[Brian McIntosh]

I'm quite surprised there hasn't been more replies to this thread. Maybe, to most people it doesn't matter? Maybe everyone is out looking for petrol and diesel!

 

[Boxby]

I think the grangemouth shutdown will be the thing to give this topic legs. What will GB and AS do??? Is AS going to go to westminster for help? I think not. Will GB take the UK view, or leave Scotland to stew, I think probably so. Either way, if the shortage takes hold, and impacts as some people predict, then i think the National Conversation will have a lot more emotion in it.

I still can't belive that this issue is just not even registering on the radar of folk down south. Just wait till the fish markets are empty and the posh resturants haven't got any fish on the menus, we might see the BBC take notice then!

 

[frockery]

I am a supporter of independence and always have been (since before the rigged vote Snapper also recalls). In fact I must get round to re-joining Independence 1st. As long as we can leave Crash Gordon south of the border...

 

[Brian McIntosh]

it's not going to affect the EBC so it doesn't matter. I don't understand why our "executive" haven't stepped in and done something about this. Maybe Westminster are pulling our Scottish strings?

 

[frockery]

it's not going to affect the EBC so it doesn't matter. I don't understand why our "executive" haven't stepped in and done something about this. Maybe Westminster are pulling our Scottish strings?

The Grangemouth dispute is a UK govt responsibility (as it involves an issue reserved to Westminster). The Scottish govt's responsibility is effectively limited to putting measures in place to deal with the consequences of the dispute.

So yes, Westminster is in control (or not as the case may be) of this one.

 

[PC]

Ranting time...

Independent countries, smaller than ours, are doing very well so why can't we?

Thats because they (Latvia, Estonia etc) started from a much MUCH lower base and even then, most of them have rampant inflation (Latvia's inflation rate is currently sitting at about 16%).

Scotland hasn't got a hope in hell of making it as a successful independant country. The Barnet formula pays the country more than it would ever get otherwise and the oil is running out (and no, it's not OUR oil - it belongs to the companies who bought the licenses and own and operate the rigs, pipelines and refineries). How the hell would the country survive? The SNP have all of their 'popular' bills etc but what about the whopping big hole in their flagship policies accounts that free personal healthcare, free university tuition etc caused? We don't hear anything about that do we?

And as for the recent slogan (small country, big minds). Ha!

I've promised myself that if ever this country gets independence then I'm off south of the border. I want a country that isn't run by a bunch of ex-councillors, a 'goverment' that doesn't try to be popularist by appealing to the lowest common denominator and doesn't seem to have an ounce of common sense between them.

I didn't vote for independance and never will. The country just cannot survive without the UK.

Just wait till the fish markets are empty and the posh resturants haven't got any fish on the menus, we might see the BBC take notice then!

Ermm, who has the bigger fishing fleets? Scotland or England? I think you'll find it's England & Wales. 50% more.

And one last things about their policies...

HOW THE SNP'S FLAGSHIP POLICIES HAVE RUN INTO TROUBLE:

Class Sizes

WHAT THEY PROMISED:

The SNP manifesto said: "We will reduce class sizes in primary 1, 2 and 3 to 18 pupils or less."

WHAT THEY HAVE DELIVERED:

The pledge has been watered down dramatically. Ministers have struck a deal with councils to work towards the target "as quickly as possible".

However, the warning from education chiefs yesterday suggests there is no chance it will happen within Alex Salmond's four-year term and for one reason - cash.

It will cost

 

[Power Lunch Club]

I have never been a Nationalist or even thought that Independance would be any good for Scotland.

But after hearing John Swinney speaking this week, I was impressed with him and how he manages Scotland's finance portfolio

Alex Salmond has just always seemed to me more of a oppotunitist for media attention than Tony Blair ever was.

The indepance issue will grow from strength to strength, righly or wrongly....I think it has to be discussed. My personal views is that it is too small an Island (the UK) to survive as seperate entities. We need England to buy our products and services and hopefully more of our resources. If we make it difficult to do business here, they may just look inwards.

I also said on a previous thread somewhere, I don't fancy getting my passport out to go down to Newcastle shopping!!

 

[Mark Lister]

Scotland's currently far too dependent for independence to work, simple as. 51% of its jobs are in the public sector, which is funded by massive amounts of Westminster money. Independence now would equal massive redundancies as that disappeared. Oil revenue isn't the answer - even if it was, how long will it last?

Deal with the dependency culture and Scotland might be able to be like Norway. I don't see the SNP addressing that. If they took a lead in this area genuine progress towards an independence-capable Scotland might be made. Instead, they seem to be pre-supposing it, when it's simply not in place.

Actually we need to address it for ourselves - by the problem's very nature, we need to become a nation of independent people before we can be an independent nation. Right now there's too much depending on others to sort things out for us. Being positive and having a positive vision for the future rather than blaming and complaining about the past/present are crucial.

Carol Craig in her book "The Scots Crisis of Confidence" tells a story of a conversation overheard in a pub. Three men are discussing a mutual friend who's done very well for himself in business and been very successful. He's now having a great life. "Aye," says one of the men,"But his uncle's an alcoholic." That attitude will not support an independent Scotland.

 

[Former Member 1]

Scotland's currently far too dependent for independence to work, simple as. 51% of its jobs are in the public sector, which is funded by massive amounts of Westminster money. Independence now would equal massive redundancies as that disappeared. Oil revenue isn't the answer - even if it was, how long will it last?

Deal with the dependency culture and Scotland might be able to be like Norway. I don't see the SNP addressing that. If they took a lead in this area genuine progress towards an independence-capable Scotland might be made. Instead, they seem to be pre-supposing it, when it's simply not in place.

Actually we need to address it for ourselves - by the problem's very nature, we need to become a nation of independent people before we can be an independent nation. Right now there's too much depending on others to sort things out for us. Being positive and having a positive vision for the future rather than blaming and complaining about the past/present are crucial.

Carol Craig in her book "The Scots Crisis of Confidence" tells a story of a conversation overheard in a pub. Three men are discussing a mutual friend who's done very well for himself in business and been very successful. He's now having a great life. "Aye," says one of the men,"But his uncle's an alcoholic." That attitude will not support an independent Scotland.

Much depends on how you view that story.

It’s an oft-floated view that Scots are hyper-critical of success and particularly guilty of promoting ‘tall poppy syndrome’. Oft-floated that is by those who would measure success by the most superficial means.

As Scots we carry a burden; that of being the subjugated backwater of an Anglo-centric bastardised ‘nation’. As Scots we have always had to punch above our weight. As Scots we have always had to try that bit harder, reach the greater standard and shut down any and all cause for contradiction. For, in this Anglo-centric bastardised ‘nation’ it has been absolutely necessary to keep the Scots down.

What is seen as a weakness by those who would do us down is actually a strength. For there is no room in this world (in the long terms at least) for the fake the fraud the superficial or the shallow.

The man’s uncle may well be an alcoholic; and in pointing that out his associates bring to light the means by which he might be done down in the future by outsiders. The wise observer would be thankful that his friends are so ready to expose the chinks in his armour. For if they don’t his competitors sure as hell would.

There’s certainly no room in an emerging independent Scotland for the half-assed half-baked superficial flim-flam that characterises much of the business scene in certain quarters of the world. For the one major USP Scotland has as a nation is its reputation for quality and solidity. Something we need to guard fiercely!

We're depending on other because we're forced to . But as a certain pair of twins put it. "I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand".

 

[Mark Lister]

'We're depending on other because we're forced to . But as a certain pair of twins put it. "I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand".'

And therein lies the quandary. Is Scotland FORCED to depend on others, or is it LETTING someone else rule?

What I say is, it's our choice. As long as we think it's forced upon us, we can't do anything to change it. If we say that if we want it to be different we need to do the changing, things can change. That requires that we acknowledge both our weaknesses and our strengths.

Scotland has massive potential. Its political, philosophical and economic thinkers were instrumental in creating the foundations of the modern western world; the British Empire relied heavily on Scottish administrative and entrepreneurial talent.

My previous point is that if we suddenly pull the plug on the union, the economy will implode. We need to develop that great potential - which is currently largely untapped - to reduce our economic reliance on Westminster-funded public sector jobs.

And the great thing is, that's entirely possible! It's a big job - we're talking radical transformation rather than piecemeal improvement. It's a fact that the Scottish economy is underperforming. But Scotland does have what it takes. I believe we could be economically OVERperforming, if we'd only stop "being our own worst enemy". The danger is that we paper over the things we need to confront, and pretend that it's all about the constitution.

 

[MarkB]

Interested to hear more recent views on independence without the thread descending into name calling etc - which seems to be the norm on many other forums lol