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Bittersweet

Getty finally sues, and wins | Copyright Action

As much as I HATE with a passion corporate bullying... Corbis/Getty AT LAST show their teeth...

I honestly don't know whether to cry or throw cartwheels as the biggest I.P bullies on the planet alternatively 'make a stand for our rights' or bully the hapless into submission'...

In truth the Corbis/Getty stance stands for the ultimate protection of the rights of even the tiniest IP producer. And the irony of this does not escape me in view of THEIR abuse of IP producers...

For in truth it would be vindication for the misery this (IMHO) idiot has imposed on others in encouraging then to flaunt the CDPA...
 

Brian McIntosh

New Member
Matt, stop sitting on the fence. :laugh:

This has been on the cards for quite a time now going by the rumours circulating the internet. For the little man, this might make some people sit up and take notice. Copyright theft is still theft.
 
What's irritating me a bit is the fact that even with a court order the gassbags are still hissing away...

They now seem to be pushing the fallacy that because Coles effectively folded no precedent has been set... :lol: Bloody Idiots! The Coles case is unique only because they were stupid enough to dig in and let it get as far as the high court...

Many others over the past few years, on the clear professional advice that they had no defence, settled out of court, avoided much of the costs, and obtained Non-Disclosure Agreements; thus avoiding having their names paraded in public and called into disrepute...

A certain grinning eejit has been making capital out of this for quite some time. And in the process people (like Coles) silly enough to buy into his flim flam have been dragged far further into this, and cost themselves far more money, than was every necessary.

Corbis and Getty quite clearly need to start making some serious examples of these people. I noted a comment made yesterday where one of them described how he might propose to evade prosecution by setting up dodgy holding companies and re-directing offending sites to new domain names. All completely nonsensical of course; but it illustrates well the mentality and basic lack of integrity that drives these 'types'...

They actually believe this level of dishonesty is in some way valid as a business process!
 

Brian McIntosh

New Member
I think that the 128 pages of "legal advice" on the FSB forum probably says everything there needs to be said on the matter.
 
I think that the 128 pages of "legal advice" on the FSB forum probably says everything there needs to be said on the matter.

:001_smile: Yes it rather does doesn't it... :thumbup1: Sadly though there are still folk reading that and thinking it's credible. And getting themselves in deeper than they need to be as a result...
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
Getty finally sues, and wins | Copyright Action

As much as I HATE with a passion corporate bullying... Corbis/Getty AT LAST show their teeth...

I honestly don't know whether to cry or throw cartwheels as the biggest I.P bullies on the planet alternatively 'make a stand for our rights' or bully the hapless into submission'...

In truth the Corbis/Getty stance stands for the ultimate protection of the rights of even the tiniest IP producer. And the irony of this does not escape me in view of THEIR abuse of IP producers...

For in truth it would be vindication for the misery this (IMHO) idiot has imposed on others in encouraging then to flaunt the CDPA...

Matt

I may be picking this up wrong and this post is not about the issue of copyright of which I have next to no knowledge.

My question is is your statement above ref "some one of Balloch" about another business ? It reads like it is but surely not?

Peter
 
Matt

I may be picking this up wrong and this post is not about the issue of copyright of which I have next to no knowledge.

My question is is your statement above ref "some one of Balloch" about another business ? It reads like it is but surely not?

Peter

Well what it's about Peter is two or three things... One of which is Copyright law and the woeful ignorance of it displayed by many who claim to be professionals in one or other of the creative industries... And indeed of the business public generally... And in particularly one individual who, despite being completely unqualified to do the job he does, and being (by his own admissions) guilty of copyright theft, has insisted on 'holding court' on the subject in a very long thread on another forum. In that thread he pontificates and pronounces upon the ins-and-outs of Copyright law. Drawing much attention to himself in the process, seeking 'sympathy' in the national press and misleading a great many people into believing what is a piece of complete and utter foolishness.

Indeed much of his non-credibility was exposed piece by piece some time ago on this very forum....

So yes; It is my sincere hope that I learn quite soon that this fellow becomes the next 'head on a stick' courtesy of Getty Images, and that they hit him as hard as is possible. For the simple reason he is a DANGER; a danger to everyone who takes him seriously and perhaps clings in desperation to the complete and utter nonsense he has spouted and promoted over the past almost-three years.... A bit like the sales rep who downs a bottle of whisky of a night then jumps in his car first thing in the morning. Though he may roll under a veil of respectability he needs, for everyone's sake, to be taken off the road... It's not anything personal; just that this particular individual needs taken down...

Let me give you this perspective:

In your own field you will, no doubt, have very high standards when it comes to safety procedures, the standard of equipment, its maintenance and its monitoring.

What would be your own attitude Peter to an operator who (say a climbing instructor) not only took a cavalier attitude to things like re-using frayed, strained or damaged ropes; but took to a public forum and started promoting the point of view that swinging from such a piece of bailing twine 300' in the air actually wasn't dangerous and stupid?
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
Well what it's about Peter is two or three things... One of which is Copyright law and the woeful ignorance of it displayed by many who claim to be professionals in one or other of the creative industries... And indeed of the business public generally... And in particularly one individual who, despite being completely unqualified to do the job he does, and being (by his own admissions) guilty of copyright theft, has insisted on 'holding court' on the subject in a very long thread on another forum. In that thread he pontificates and pronounces upon the ins-and-outs of Copyright law. Drawing much attention to himself in the process, seeking 'sympathy' in the national press and misleading a great many people into believing what is a piece of complete and utter foolishness.

Indeed much of his non-credibility was exposed piece by piece some time ago on this very forum....

So yes; It is my sincere hope that I learn quite soon that this fellow becomes the next 'head on a stick' courtesy of Getty Images, and that they hit him as hard as is possible. For the simple reason he is a DANGER; a danger to everyone who takes him seriously and perhaps clings in desperation to the complete and utter nonsense he has spouted and promoted over the past almost-three years.... A bit like the sales rep who downs a bottle of whisky of a night then jumps in his car first thing in the morning. Though he may roll under a veil of respectability he needs, for everyone's sake, to be taken off the road... It's not anything personal; just that this particular individual needs taken down...

Let me give you this perspective:

In your own field you will, no doubt, have very high standards when it comes to safety procedures, the standard of equipment, its maintenance and its monitoring.

What would be your own attitude Peter to an operator who (say a climbing instructor) not only took a cavalier attitude to things like re-using frayed, strained or damaged ropes; but took to a public forum and started promoting the point of view that swinging from such a piece of bailing twine 300' in the air actually wasn't dangerous and stupid?

Hi Matt

Followed the link and seen the thread. Have not read as as I have no knowledge of the subject it would be impossible to give a view.

With your point with regard my industry I learned a long time ago, before I was in business the only time I discuss something serious with an individual or in a situation that can result in conflict is when I can look them straight in the eye.

In my experience the written word tends to cause more issues than it resolves.

Horses for courses of course everyone to their own.

Peter
 
Hi Matt

Followed the link and seen the thread. Have not read as as I have no knowledge of the subject it would be impossible to give a view.

With your point with regard my industry I learned a long time ago, before I was in business the only time I discuss something serious with an individual or in a situation that can result in conflict is when I can look them straight in the eye.

In my experience the written word tends to cause more issues than it resolves.

Horses for courses of course everyone to their own.

Peter

It's a side effect (perhaps an unfortunate one) of this new range of platforms that we have that the written word happens to be the only tool to hand. The real point I was making of course is that you wouldn't condone an unsafe practice. Nor perhaps tolerate the general risk to your industry that tolerance of rogue traders or rogue activities might bring...

There's a fellow close to me runs clays; perfectly respectable very safe shoot. But the flack he gets is unbelievable, and his activity almost an 'underground' one... And that's down to a decade or so of mis-conceptions and bad press bourne from the fallout of the Dunblane Massacre...

20 years ago I could have taken you to a dozen such shoots; and told you of four or five good Gunsmiths, all of whom have been disappeared thanks to the actions of one lunatic... A mellowdramatic and extreme example I know; but not, I hope, an irrelevant one... For like it or not, that lunatic was 'tolerated' by the suppliers who supplied him and those who 'rubber stamped' his firearms certificates... Had the angry people got angrier BEFORE the event and effectively shut him down... Well; those event WERE extreme.. And horrific, and the price paid is far worse than a few gunsmiths put out of work...

This isn't an attack; but you say you've no knowledge of Copyright Peter? Yet you make extensive use of both photographic and Video material on your own site. And I've noted before that your videos are cut to music? From where? (These are rhetorical questions; it's not my intent to challenge what you're doing) Who performed it? Who recorded it? Who published it? Who wrote it? Is there an audit trail? I assume that whilst YOU don't know about these things the risk to your business is mitigated by employing someone who DOES? (again; purely rhetorical!)... And HAS asked (and answered) these questions..

And frankly, if you don't understand fully the process of managing IPR then you lack one of the pivotal skills needed to create material of this nature without exposing your business to what is serious risk.

Again; it comes down to that example of the previously-strained rope. It might look OK, it might feel OK. It's just a bit of rope after all but....
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
It's a side effect (perhaps an unfortunate one) of this new range of platforms that we have that the written word happens to be the only tool to hand. The real point I was making of course is that you wouldn't condone an unsafe practice. Nor perhaps tolerate the general risk to your industry that tolerance of rogue traders or rogue activities might bring...

There's a fellow close to me runs clays; perfectly respectable very safe shoot. But the flack he gets is unbelievable, and his activity almost an 'underground' one... And that's down to a decade or so of mis-conceptions and bad press bourne from the fallout of the Dunblane Massacre...

20 years ago I could have taken you to a dozen such shoots; and told you of four or five good Gunsmiths, all of whom have been disappeared thanks to the actions of one lunatic... A mellowdramatic and extreme example I know; but not, I hope, an irrelevant one... For like it or not, that lunatic was 'tolerated' by the suppliers who supplied him and those who 'rubber stamped' his firearms certificates... Had the angry people got angrier BEFORE the event and effectively shut him down... Well; those event WERE extreme.. And horrific, and the price paid is far worse than a few gunsmiths put out of work...

This isn't an attack; but you say you've no knowledge of Copyright Peter? Yet you make extensive use of both photographic and Video material on your own site. And I've noted before that your videos are cut to music? From where? (These are rhetorical questions; it's not my intent to challenge what you're doing) Who performed it? Who recorded it? Who published it? Who wrote it? Is there an audit trail? I assume that whilst YOU don't know about these things the risk to your business is mitigated by employing someone who DOES? (again; purely rhetorical!)... And HAS asked (and answered) these questions..

And frankly, if you don't understand fully the process of managing IPR then you lack one of the pivotal skills needed to create material of this nature without exposing your business to what is serious risk.

Again; it comes down to that example of the previously-strained rope. It might look OK, it might feel OK. It's just a bit of rope after all but....

Matt

I am 100% sure that I have hundreds of thousands of photographs all over the net that are legal as we took them. I can also name over 10 companies that are using them to market their own services which is probably illegal. However, I have not got the time or wish to chase them for it.

I also know we have hundreds of videos all around the net and some may not have been loaded with music that comes from the store of music that we pay for each year.

I like every other business owner will get things wrong, as long as as I learn and correct them I can live with it.

However, that was not the issue I was addressing I was stating that I was surprised that you were being so public about another business in the written word. Like I said horse for courses but an interesting space to be willing to travel.

With regards your reference to Dunblane . You actually used the words that are most suited to this reference. I was in Dunblane on that day. My wife spent weeks after the event visiting those poor soles who had lost children due to her job. I also have more knowledge of guns and what can be done with them than is probably right. In no way does any of the above have even the slightest comparison to any business issue
no matter how serious you think the business issue is, it is totally out of context for you to compare it to what happened that day.
 
Matt

I am 100% sure that I have hundreds of thousands of photographs all over the net that are legal as we took them. I can also name over 10 companies that are using them to market their own services which is probably illegal. However, I have not got the time or wish to chase them for it.

I also know we have hundreds of videos all around the net and some may not have been loaded with music that comes from the store of music that we pay for each year.

I like every other business owner will get things wrong, as long as as I learn and correct them I can live with it.

However, that was not the issue I was addressing I was stating that I was surprised that you were being so public about another business in the written word. Like I said horse for courses but an interesting space to be willing to travel.

With regards your reference to Dunblane . You actually used the words that are most suited to this reference. I was in Dunblane on that day. My wife spent weeks after the event visiting those poor soles who had lost children due to her job. I also have more knowledge of guns and what can be done with them than is probably right. In no way does any of the above have even the slightest comparison to any business issue
no matter how serious you think the business issue is, it is totally out of context for you to compare it to what happened that day.

As it happens I too was unwillingly 'connected' to the Dunblane Masacre is that I was one of the many media personnel charged with descending upon that town in the aftermath. It IS a painful memory, especially as I have relatives (In-Laws) in the town, one of which might easily have been one of the victims but for her developing a cold and being kept off school that day...

I'm not making comparisons with what happened on that day. I'm pointing two things out about the aftermath and events leading up to it:

1) HAD certain individuals spoken out, actively advocated and used the checks and safeguards that were already in place that individual would never have been in a position to do what he did.

2) HAD that incident been prevented, not only would the tragic loss of life been stopped (which I admit IS a more serious and incomparable issue) but the loss of an industry would have been prevented.

Remember, there was at least one independent Gunsmith who took his own life in the aftermath; driven to bankruptcy through the destruction of his trade. Others still simply 'folded', forcing people onto the dole and in several cases into a spiral of ongoing hopelessness, alcoholism, depression etc... Similar things happened to workers in related fields such as on many farm shoots and some of the smaller estates...

One of those guys is an ex-business neighbour of mine. His nice house in the Kilpatrick hills just a memory, as is the family he once had... Now a shambling wreck living alone in a council flat; The last time I spoke to the fellow he expressed the wish that he were dead. If that isn't also a tragedy then what is?

Those things ARE business issues as well as human issues. The fellow who killed himself had a family, kids, grandkids... God forbid that there is some rogue operator in your own field, who is being tolerated or ignored.

I was stating that I was surprised that you were being so public about another business in the written word. Like I said horse for courses but an interesting space to be willing to travel.

For evil to flourish good many need only do nothing. It's NOT a space I travel alone. And like many in my profession I've no difficulty in exposing those who place the community at risk. I'm VERY open, and have no difficult committing to print, my attitude to those who are damaging the creative industries and indeed the business community in general.

The individual in question has attracted the 'attention' of many professional photographers, video producers and editorial producers. He's actively sought press attention to promote a point of view that is all of dangerous, ill-informed, is taking the bread and butter out of the mouths of legitimate professionals, and exposing his followers to the risk of losing everything they've ever worked for. One day, the echoes of his stupidity may well cost someone their life... Or, if they're very lucky, leave them a shambling clinically depressed wreck like that out-of-work gunsmith...

Your own awareness of Copyright in fact extends to generating your own material and paying for licensed music. That you're prepared to tolerate the abuse of your own material is of course your own concern. However while the so-called victims of Getty, Corbis et all are whinging about bills for a couple of grand, they could EASILY be ultimately facing bills reaching into the £20K-30K ranges.... Though the figure seems to be 'buried' I suspect JA Coles won't be seeing much change from £20K

Certainly many rights owners are ascribing clearly stated default values for limited licensing of their material as part of the T&Cs that allow access to that material. Default values of £30K-£150K are not uncommon now. An EXPENSIVE mistake to be willing to make, even if you don't let it get as far as a court order!

And the fact is as traditional revenue streams from hard-media dry up, and virtual delivery becomes the norm (as it has with music) rights owners will only ever become more litigious in their efforts to protect those streams and that income.

The fact is that anyone who doesn't fully understand how to manage IPR has no more business creating content than someone with an ordinary car licence has getting behind of an articulated lorry and taking it out, on their own, onto the public roads....
 
Adventurelife

Adventurelife

New Member
As it happens I too was unwillingly 'connected' to the Dunblane Masacre is that I was one of the many media personnel charged with descending upon that town in the aftermath. It IS a painful memory, especially as I have relatives (In-Laws) in the town, one of which might easily have been one of the victims but for her developing a cold and being kept off school that day...

I'm not making comparisons with what happened on that day. I'm pointing two things out about the aftermath and events leading up to it:

1) HAD certain individuals spoken out, actively advocated and used the checks and safeguards that were already in place that individual would never have been in a position to do what he did.

2) HAD that incident been prevented, not only would the tragic loss of life been stopped (which I admit IS a more serious and incomparable issue) but the loss of an industry would have been prevented.

Remember, there was at least one independent Gunsmith who took his own life in the aftermath; driven to bankruptcy through the destruction of his trade. Others still simply 'folded', forcing people onto the dole and in several cases into a spiral of ongoing hopelessness, alcoholism, depression etc... Similar things happened to workers in related fields such as on many farm shoots and some of the smaller estates...

One of those guys is an ex-business neighbour of mine. His nice house in the Kilpatrick hills just a memory, as is the family he once had... Now a shambling wreck living alone in a council flat; The last time I spoke to the fellow he expressed the wish that he were dead. If that isn't also a tragedy then what is?

Those things ARE business issues as well as human issues. The fellow who killed himself had a family, kids, grandkids... God forbid that there is some rogue operator in your own field, who is being tolerated or ignored.



For evil to flourish good many need only do nothing. It's NOT a space I travel alone. And like many in my profession I've no difficulty in exposing those who place the community at risk. I'm VERY open, and have no difficult committing to print, my attitude to those who are damaging the creative industries and indeed the business community in general.

The individual in question has attracted the 'attention' of many professional photographers, video producers and editorial producers. He's actively sought press attention to promote a point of view that is all of dangerous, ill-informed, is taking the bread and butter out of the mouths of legitimate professionals, and exposing his followers to the risk of losing everything they've ever worked for. One day, the echoes of his stupidity may well cost someone their life... Or, if they're very lucky, leave them a shambling clinically depressed wreck like that out-of-work gunsmith...

Your own awareness of Copyright in fact extends to generating your own material and paying for licensed music. That you're prepared to tolerate the abuse of your own material is of course your own concern. However while the so-called victims of Getty, Corbis et all are whinging about bills for a couple of grand, they could EASILY be ultimately facing bills reaching into the £20K-30K ranges.... Though the figure seems to be 'buried' I suspect JA Coles won't be seeing much change from £20K

Certainly many rights owners are ascribing clearly stated default values for limited licensing of their material as part of the T&Cs that allow access to that material. Default values of £30K-£150K are not uncommon now. An EXPENSIVE mistake to be willing to make, even if you don't let it get as far as a court order!

And the fact is as traditional revenue streams from hard-media dry up, and virtual delivery becomes the norm (as it has with music) rights owners will only ever become more litigious in their efforts to protect those streams and that income.

The fact is that anyone who doesn't fully understand how to manage IPR has no more business creating content than someone with an ordinary car licence has getting behind of an articulated lorry and taking it out, on their own, onto the public roads....


I agree that when things are wrong you should stand firm, however, my view of business is maybe not what yours is. Maybe diluted with experience of things that are more serious.

Still, as as I said horses for courses.
 
Further to this some new developments have come to light....

'A removal firm' from Edinburgh have spoken about their experiences after being sued by 'C&G'... what could have been cleared for £160 wound up costing then circa £26K thanks to cowboy creatives, barrack-room lawyers and bucket-shop legal template letters...

The interview is here. And I'd be grateful if people DO think they've identified the firm that they not name them. These people have been through enough and it's brave of them to talk so openly about the experience....

The real cost of being sued by Getty | Copyright Action

The troublesome 180-odd page thread on the FSB site has been moved to their 'members only' area, so is no longer accessible... Though the summary with the vacuous and dangerous S97 defence is still live and open to the public...

Eyebrows have been raised at just quite how 'venomous' I've been towards a certain individual. The core reason for this has, until now, been kept under wraps at the request of a friend.... There's another thread on the FSB in which I do relate the source of my own anger towards the FSB for giving a platform to this dangerous nonsense and my anger towards the individual who originally posted it.

In that process I'm deeply ashamed to say I broke a confidence, and caused further embarassment to my friend, for which I'm deeply sorry. But the bottom line with all this is that not only have one family lost their house as a result of following this dangerous 'advice', but another small firm has been SERIOUSLY disadvantaged....

FSB Discussion Forums: READ THE REAL COST OF BEING SUED BY GETTY

People need to know about the REAL price of hiring Cowboy Creatives, and of compounding that by buying into 'Bucket Shop' or worse still Barrack Room legal advice...
 
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